Will missing vapor barrier & unvented crawlspace make Radon levels elevated ?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Wow!

David, be Happy

[T.J. Christopher]

Hey Marcel, did you get any on ya ? Ya better duck, My, My, My, what a spew.. Haven't seen that many asteriks used in a long time,,

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by dandersen

I am not being a hard ***!
I spent several thousand dollars in a certification class (4 DAYS) where your stupid *** question was simply "stupid ***".

If you can't take a simple : go get some training!

Get off this board, and get some training!


I lost two jobs today from HI's that do IT at $230 @ 3K SF!

NOT TO MENTION THE BS THE BANKS ARE PULLING!

I did EPA Radon 10 yers ago and I likely forgot more than you now!
If you want to match witts, have at it!
But you, my friend have no clue!

I'm willing to teach you a thing or two. But at this point, you can do it on your own!

Now, now, Brother NACHI members. I don't know the whole history, here, and I don;t want to. But, some things have to be said.

Mustn't feed on each other.

1) If one is qualified (as in special training to do a particular type of inspection) then do it. If one is skirting the lack of state law, then one is not qualified and is in a load of trouble (to themselves, eventually) and to NACHI.

2) This also applies to various subs and contractors and simple "handumen". If one is not qualified (if there is a state requirement, meet it. If there is not, meet the current federal requirements. Just that simple.), then DO NOT do it. I don't care is you can "make the money". Why would you want to screw your clients that way.

3) Many subs and contractors and handymen (and Realtors) take advantage of this. Their thinking (or lack thereof) is:

• If it is not, specifically, prohibited, it is OK.
• If it is prohibited, but they do not enforce, or can't catch me, it is OK.
• If I can get away with it, and get paid, it is OK.

NONE OF THESE ARE ETHICAL OR PROFESSIONAL. Why would you want to do it?

And why would ANY real professional want to be associated with these type of people?

I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor will I tolerate those who do.

Simple, clean and easy.

You want to play the same unethical game as some of the scum bag builders we are always complaining about, that is your problem.

But, I would posit that you are not professional, ethical or moral.

And, by being a member of NACHI, you bring us all down.

Again, I am NOT casting any aspersions on anyone. I don't know the details. But, if you are doing this, get the heck off my Associations's board. We don't need, want nor will we tolerate you kind.

Nuff said.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Now, now, Brother NACHI members. I don't know the whole history, here, and I don;t want to. But, some things have to be said.

Mustn't feed on each other.

1) If one is qualified (as in special training to do a particular type of inspection) then do it. If one is skirting the lack of state law, then one is not qualified and is in a load of trouble (to themselves, eventually) and to NACHI.

2) This also applies to various subs and contractors and simple "handumen". If one is not qualified (if there is a state requirement, meet it. If there is not, meet the current federal requirements. Just that simple.), then DO NOT do it. I don't care is you can "make the money". Why would you want to screw your clients that way.


3) Many subs and contractors and handymen (and Realtors) take advantage of this. Their thinking (or lack thereof) is:

• If it is not, specifically, prohibited, it is OK.
• If it is prohibited, but they do not enforce, or can't catch me, it is OK.
• If I can get away with it, and get paid, it is OK.

NONE OF THESE ARE ETHICAL OR PROFESSIONAL. Why would you want to do it?

And why would ANY real professional want to be associated with these type of people?

I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor will I tolerate those who do.

Simple, clean and easy.

You want to play the same unethical game as some of the scum bag builders we are always complaining about, that is your problem.

But, I would posit that you are not professional, ethical or moral.

And, by being a member of NACHI, you bring us all down.

Again, I am NOT casting any aspersions on anyone. I don't know the details. But, if you are doing this, get the heck off my Associations's board. We don't need, want nor will we tolerate you kind.

Nuff said.

Thanks Will

Marcel

[T.J. Christopher]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Now, now, Brother NACHI members. I don't know the whole history, here, and I don;t want to. But, some things have to be said.

Mustn't feed on each other.

1) If one is qualified (as in special training to do a particular type of inspection) then do it. If one is skirting the lack of state law, then one is not qualified and is in a load of trouble (to themselves, eventually) and to NACHI.

2) This also applies to various subs and contractors and simple "handumen". If one is not qualified (if there is a state requirement, meet it. If there is not, meet the current federal requirements. Just that simple.), then DO NOT do it. I don't care is you can "make the money". Why would you want to screw your clients that way.


3) Many subs and contractors and handymen (and Realtors) take advantage of this. Their thinking (or lack thereof) is:

• If it is not, specifically, prohibited, it is OK.
• If it is prohibited, but they do not enforce, or can't catch me, it is OK.
• If I can get away with it, and get paid, it is OK.

NONE OF THESE ARE ETHICAL OR PROFESSIONAL. Why would you want to do it?

And why would ANY real professional want to be associated with these type of people?

I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor will I tolerate those who do.

Simple, clean and easy.

You want to play the same unethical game as some of the scum bag builders we are always complaining about, that is your problem.

But, I would posit that you are not professional, ethical or moral.

And, by being a member of NACHI, you bring us all down.

Again, I am NOT casting any aspersions on anyone. I don't know the details. But, if you are doing this, get the heck off my Associations's board. We don't need, want nor will we tolerate you kind.

Nuff said.

No not nuff said, I have been on this board & a quiet member of NACHI longer than any of you that have replied with these childish attacks, hope you are proud of yourself, bet it makes it hard for you to walk don't it. I shouldn't have to explain the post again so you can understand the simple situation I was seeking opinions on. A professional opinion or advice, isn't that what most people are looking when they view this board & not for people making fools out of ourselves. They can find those boards anywhere & not have to pay to do it. I know there are those watching & considering NACHI & wondering, "Wow, all they do is argue & belittle people on like the other places do, it show thr true colors of these guys & I'm not sure I want to be a part of an association like that" Hum,,, The attacks (Get off MY board) are uncalled for & shows the inability to deal rationally with someone rather than get mad & shows the lack of professionalism & integrity of those who do so. It's actually appalling & the moderators shouldn't allow it, if you want to yell & scream & throw a name-calling tantrum, then go to the the "Not for everyone" forum & slug it out, or Face Book. THAT my friend is what hurts NACHI'S integrity. It makes those doing it look like a bunch of arrogant know-it-alls & cyber bullies who probably wouldn't talk to someone like that face to face. Normal people just want an answer to their question. And please before someone comes back with another name calling reply, take a deep breath, & ponder this post & you will see the truth in it. Unbelievable that I have to even reply to something like this.

[William J. Decker]

My point was, and I was NOT commenting on your situation because I don't know it, is that inspectors should not be doing inspections that they are not qualified to so. Contractors should not be doing work that they are not, specifically, trained and experiences in doing.

If you have had the training to do Radon, no problem. If you have not , and you do Radon, then you are hurting your clients and yourself, and bringing down this board.

Same thing with inspectors who use IR cameras and have no training. Same thing for mold.

I was commenting more on various "contractors" who believe that they can do work that they are not qualified of trained to do. Handymen who change out electric panels or contractors who think that they can do mold remediation or Radon mitigation without the proper training. I, regularly, see first year apprentice electricians who do "side jobs", and their work is crap. They have put the client in peril and undercut a qualified hut from getting the job.

Aren't we always complaining about the "drive-by", cheap inspectors who undercut our prices? Do you think that the client is well served by them?

Around here, there are GCs who are not Architects or SEs that believe that they can modify or change plans, written by Architects, as they see fit, change the specs or the details. I see this all the time. Then, the house goes south and the owners try to blame me.

My only point was:
1) If you are not qualified and specifically trained to do something (whether it is inspecting, building or repairing) don't do it. It may be "legal" (i.e., not specifically prohibited by law), but that does not make it right.
2) If a homeowner needs a repair, they should be willing to pay the money required to have the job done right and get someone to do the job that is specifically trained and qualified.

Do do otherwise is just plain stupid.

[T.J. Christopher]

thanx Will, have a great day

[Russell Spriggs]

David, your spell checker breaks when you get upset . . .

Easy on the BP, guy!

[David A. Andersen]

Okay, I got up out of the other side of bed this morning and I am no longer under the stress of my certification test. I had the chance to review your initial post, as well as mine.
I will apologize again in advance (as I already apologized in my first post). I overlooked the second part of your question where you asked if passive mitigation practices can lower a 19 pCi/l test to the action level. I feel that this is an appropriate question to ask from a certified radon tester because it technically falls under radon mitigation protocol. Asking a experienced radon mitigator or tester who may have seen a reduction of 19 to 4 pCi/l is one thing, but the first part of your question is what set you up for the responses you received.

I tested a brand new home the other day & the Radon level was at 19.3 . There was no vapor barrier in the 3' tall crawlspace & no vents in the crawlspace walls. Would these missing items contribute to elevated Radon levels ?

I took radon testing certification about 10 years ago at Auburn University and radon mitigation certification about a year later, so it's been a while for me. But it sure seems that even in the most basic radon training for testing, this question should have been quite adequately covered.

These subjects of "sub membrane depressurization" and "dilution air" address the issues of vapor barriers and foundation ventilators.

As a matter of fact, the EPA Consumer's Guide to Radon Reduction (which is a document you should be providing to all of your customers) states on page 10; "radon levels can sometimes be lowered by ventilating the crawlspace passively" as well as comparing another effective method to reduce radon levels in crawlspace houses involves covering the earth with a heavy plastic sheet".

This bulletin board is a wealth of information, but we are not here to train home inspectors. We are here to support one another. When you obviously have not taken the first step to help yourself with information readily available, why do you expect us to spend our time on you?

Nobody yelled at you. Nobody said anything that requires a moderator to remove our post. You received exactly what you deserved. No one used profanity or hurt your business, if anything we are saving your butt!

We have a lack of tolerance at times. Because as Will Decker pointed out...

Aren't we always complaining about the "drive-by", cheap inspectors who undercut our prices?

it appears to us through your post, that you are one of these.

On Friday I was taking my final examination for Level II infrared certification and received a telephone call, which I could not answer because I was taking a proctored examination. When I returned the call, they already found another home inspector but then commenced to ask me my inspection services and prices, at which time they abruptly cut me off saying I was grossly overpriced because they found three other inspectors that would inspect their house and do thermal imaging, HVAC inspections and tests for mold for $230 (and I don't do mold). I had just spent $1700 and a weeks worth of work to obtain just one certification and they expect an inspection for $230.

I'll quit now, I'm becoming agitated again and my spellchecker will probably quit working!

[Ian A. Niquette]

Originally Posted by dandersen

Okay, I got up out of the other side of bed this morning and I am no longer under the stress of my certification test. I had the chance to review your initial post, as well as mine.
I will apologize again in advance (as I already apologized in my first post). I overlooked the second part of your question where you asked if passive mitigation practices can lower a 19 pCi/l test to the action level. I feel that this is an appropriate question to ask from a certified radon tester because it technically falls under radon mitigation protocol. Asking a experienced radon mitigator or tester who may have seen a reduction of 19 to 4 pCi/l is one thing, but the first part of your question is what set you up for the responses you received.



I took radon testing certification about 10 years ago at Auburn University and radon mitigation certification about a year later, so it's been a while for me. But it sure seems that even in the most basic radon training for testing, this question should have been quite adequately covered.

These subjects of "sub membrane depressurization" and "dilution air" address the issues of vapor barriers and foundation ventilators.

As a matter of fact, the EPA Consumer's Guide to Radon Reduction (which is a document you should be providing to all of your customers) states on page 10; "radon levels can sometimes be lowered by ventilating the crawlspace passively" as well as comparing another effective method to reduce radon levels in crawlspace houses involves covering the earth with a heavy plastic sheet".

This bulletin board is a wealth of information, but we are not here to train home inspectors. We are here to support one another. When you obviously have not taken the first step to help yourself with information readily available, why do you expect us to spend our time on you?

Nobody yelled at you. Nobody said anything that requires a moderator to remove our post. You received exactly what you deserved. No one used profanity or hurt your business, if anything we are saving your butt!

We have a lack of tolerance at times. Because as Will Decker pointed out...
it appears to us through your post, that you are one of these.

On Friday I was taking my final examination for Level II infrared certification and received a telephone call, which I could not answer because I was taking a proctored examination. When I returned the call, they already found another home inspector but then commenced to ask me my inspection services and prices, at which time they abruptly cut me off saying I was grossly overpriced because they found three other inspectors that would inspect their house and do thermal imaging, HVAC inspections and tests for mold for $230 (and I don't do mold). I had just spent $1700 and a weeks worth of work to obtain just one certification and they expect an inspection for $230.

I'll quit now, I'm becoming agitated again and my spellchecker will probably quit working!

Even in my neck of the woods that is ridiculous.