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  #1  
Old 11/20/07, 6:49 PM
mkiss1 mkiss1 is offline
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Question Mold Testing after rain

Hi everyone,

According to most mold testing training classes I attended, it is recommended to wait at least 2 hours after rain or snow, before taking an outside air sample. The reason for it is spores tend to be on the ground during rainfall. Here is the deal, here in Chicago area, we are going to have some kind of rain, snow, storms, tornados, blizzards till Match the earliest. Sometimes all in the same time. If I wait for a perfect weather for outside air sampling, it may take me 2 days. Clients are not really happy about it. What do you usually do about it?
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  #2  
Old 11/20/07, 6:53 PM
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Joseph Hagarty, CMI Joseph Hagarty,  CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Recommended but not required.

There will never be ideal conditions for conducting an environmental test.

Too Wet, Too Dry, Too Cold, Too Hot, Ground Frozen, Ground Snow Covered, Too much Wind, etc.....



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  #3  
Old 11/20/07, 7:44 PM
dplummer dplummer is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Thats why you can't just use your outside count as a baseline. It's not a true reading. Doug
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  #4  
Old 11/20/07, 9:07 PM
Ted Allen Ted Allen is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiss1
Hi everyone,

According to most mold testing training classes I attended, it is recommended to wait at least 2 hours after rain or snow, before taking an outside air sample. The reason for it is spores tend to be on the ground during rainfall. Here is the deal, here in Chicago area, we are going to have some kind of rain, snow, storms, tornados, blizzards till Match the earliest. Sometimes all in the same time. If I wait for a perfect weather for outside air sampling, it may take me 2 days. Clients are not really happy about it. What do you usually do about it?


You must be kidding me............
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  #5  
Old 11/20/07, 9:13 PM
Ted Allen Ted Allen is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhagarty
Recommended but not required.

There will never be ideal conditions for conducting an environmental test.

Too Wet, Too Dry, Too Cold, Too Hot, Ground Frozen, Ground Snow Covered, Too much Wind, etc.....
\



Thats why you need to put the biggest scariest narritives in your report.......... Protect yourselves.......... I will not comment on Mold............ I will not comment on Critters unless they pay me.....



Joe H. is so correct.......... I see something that looks like a biological substance , but I will be damned if I can tell you what it is? I think it would be a good idea if you called a PRO...
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  #6  
Old 11/20/07, 9:19 PM
Ted Allen Ted Allen is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Joe H. 99% of the time you give the MB the correct answer..... There are only about 7 of you that do this on a guerenteed basis.... In other words ..if you answer a question it is guerenteed to be right. No exceptions...

After all of the crap you have been through with this Org. I comend you for being the pillar of info that you are.

Take care Joe.
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  #7  
Old 11/21/07, 9:16 AM
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Mark Sylvester Mark Sylvester is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

I wont test within 24 hours of rain.

Are you doing viable or non-viable testing or both, as you should be.



Mark Sylvester
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  #8  
Old 12/12/07, 3:55 PM
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Caoimhín P. Connell Caoimhín P. Connell is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Hello Maxim:

If you do your testing correctly, and establish proper data quality objectives, the rain won’t matter a hoot (or snow, or heat, or wind or famine, or … fill in the blank).

If your instructor told you that, then that speaks volumes of information on how badly your mould class was taught and how poorly your instructor was trained and how poorly he understood the subject matter.


Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
www.forensic-applications.com

The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.

AMDG
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  #9  
Old 12/12/07, 11:47 PM
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Kenton Shepard, CMI Kenton Shepard, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

According to this paper released by Forintek (Canada's national wood products research institute)...

"...The amount and types present in the atmosphere vary with the season and the weather. For example, spore production of many fungi increases dramatically in the fall. A light rainfall can increase the spore load in the air but a heavy rainfall can wash most of the spores to the ground."

pg. 7




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  #10  
Old 12/13/07, 10:56 AM
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Caoimhín P. Connell Caoimhín P. Connell is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Hello Mr. Shepard:

The point in question is not if spore concentrations do or do not decrease after rain. The point in question is whether the person collecting the samples is sufficiently proficient in aerobiology and sampling theory to know that if their data quality objectives are properly designed, IT WON’T MATTER if there is or is not a decrease in spores after a rainfall, and therefore, they won’t have to sit around and, literally worry about the weather in deciding whether or not (or when) to sample.

We know that spore counts vary with season.
We know that spore counts vary with temperature.
We know that spore counts vary with wind speed.
We know that spore counts vary with light variations.
We know that spore counts vary with sampling velocity.
We know that spore counts vary with altitude.
We know that spore counts vary with elevation in a room.
We know that spore counts vary with time.
We know that spore counts vary with relative humidity.

So, do we, then, explain to the client, “Well, Gosh, I’d like to sample for airborne moulds, but we will have to wait until noon on June 3rd, provided the outdoor temperature is at least 75F, and there is no wind, and it will have to be a bright day with no rain in the last two hours, and by the way, you will have to move your house from Boulder, Colorado to sea level.”

No – what we do if we are profficient in sampling for spores in the air is establish data quality objectives, such that we will be able to interpret our data

Regardless of the season.
Regardless of the temperature.
Regardless of the wind speed.
Regardless of the light variations.
Regardless of the sampling velocity.
Regardless of the altitude.
Regardless of the elevation in a room.
Regardless of the time.
Regardless of the relative humidity.

and be ready to stand up in court, and explain exactly WHY those variations were already taken into account in the interpretation of the data.

Having said that – it is important to know that following a rain storm, only some spores may decrease, whereas others may increase. (Since you used a quote, I too get to use one too…)

After rain, near ground level there is often a “damp-air spora” dominated by various kinds of ascospore whose active release depends on the turgor of the asci in which they form. This damp-air spora replaces the “dry-air spora” consisting of spores of Clasporium, Alternaria, smuts and rusts that is largely washed out of the air by the same rainfall giving rise to the damp-air spora.” (Madelin TM, Madelin MF, Biological Analysis of Fungi and Associated Molds, BIOAEROSOLS HANDBOOK, 1995

Now, in my mind, if a person collecting air samples for moulds, did not already know that, they should not be collecting air samples in the first place, since they can’t interpret the data, and therefore, they are pretending to be proficient in the service they are providing, when in fact, they are not proficient and they providing nonsensical “data” they can’t interpret, and therefore, they are ripping off their client (but making bu$ine$$ for me!)

Therefore, it needs repeating: “…The point in question is whether the person collecting the samples is sufficiently proficient in aerobiology and sampling theory to know that if their data quality objectives are properly designed, IT WON’T MATTER if there is or is not a decrease in spores after a rainfall…”

Cheers,
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications, Inc.
www.forensic-applications.com

The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.

AMDG
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  #11  
Old 12/16/07, 12:29 PM
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Caoimhín P. Connell Caoimhín P. Connell is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

By the way, Kenton’s good guy – I’m not throwing stones at him…

Caoimhín
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  #12  
Old 12/16/07, 6:28 PM
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Nick Gromicko Nick Gromicko is online now
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Mr. Connell, you have no clue as to what you are talking about. 99% of the information a client wants when he hires an inspector to test for mold is not found by testing for mold.

No stone throwing from me either.



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  #13  
Old 12/16/07, 8:51 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko
Mr. Connell, you have no clue as to what you are talking about. 99% of the information a client wants when he hires an inspector to test for mold is not found by testing for mold.

No stone throwing from me either.
Can you elaborate on this???
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  #14  
Old 12/17/07, 12:29 AM
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Caoimhín P. Connell Caoimhín P. Connell is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Mr. MacNeish:

Allow me to elaborate on Mr. Gromiko’s post.

87.53% of all statistics are fabricated on the spot. As such Mr. Gromiko’s, and those in this post are merely following a long and honored line of tradition. However, as empty stats go, mine are probably a little closer to representing the truth.

Cheers!
Caoimhín
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  #15  
Old 12/17/07, 12:34 AM
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Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI is offline
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Default Re: Mold Testing after rain

Brian

You have to read between the lines.......

Cheers,
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications, Inc.
www.forensic-applications.com

The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.





'Imagination is more important than knowledge' (sometimes)
Mario Kyriacou CHI CMI-
NACHI Canadian Member of the Year 2007

http://www.360degreesbuildinginspections.com


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