Radon Testing Question

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

Just went to drop off a radon monitor for an inspection I am doing on Sunday. Got to the property to meet the seller and he had the door and window open. He says that it was only open for about an hour and a half.

My thinking is I now have to let the monitor set for 60 hours and disregard the first 12 hours of the test. Is this correct, since I can't return back to the house 12 hours after closing the house back up to start the test.


Thanks

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by sgilligan1

Just went to drop off a radon monitor for an inspection I am doing on Sunday. Got to the property to meet the seller and he had the door and window open. He says that it was only open for about an hour and a half.

My thinking is I now have to let the monitor set for 60 hours and disregard the first 12 hours of the test. Is this correct, since I can't return back to the house 12 hours after closing the house back up to start the test.


Thanks

I use charcoal canisters.

I don't make an issue out of windows being open prior to placing a radon test. So long as everything is sealed at the time I place my canisters and stay closed for 48 hours, it's OK..IMO.

[mnahrgang]

Had the same thing happen to me this week. 60 hours. CRM.

That's my understanding of the protocols. However, the interesting thing was that the values were consistent over the whole 60 hours so I'm not sure it was that big of a deal.

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

Had the same thing happen to me this week. 60 hours. CRM.

That's my understanding of the protocols. However, the interesting thing was that the values were consistent over the whole 60 hours so I'm not sure it was that big of a deal.

Thanks Mark...that's what I thought.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

With the sun nuclear, it drops the first four hours of the test to comply with the EPA protocol. This is to give the home time to reach equilibrium. The 60 hour number is new to me.

From the EPA site...
"Indoor Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurement Device Protocols"
1.2.2 Measurement Conditions

The following conditions should exist prior to and during a measurement period to standardize the measurement conditions as much as possible. This list may be applied to each of the measurement methods discussed in Sections 2 and 3. However, there may also be method-specific conditions that are mentioned in the applicable protocol.
Short-term measurements lasting 90 days or less should be made under closed-building conditions. To the extent reasonable, all windows, outside vents, and external doors should be closed (except for normal entrance and exit) for 12 hours prior to and during the measurement period. Normal entrance and exit includes opening and closing a door, but an external door should not be left open for more than a few minutes. These conditions are expected to exist as normal living conditions during the winter in northern climates. For this reason, short-term measurements should be made during winter periods whenever possible.
In addition to maintaining closed-building conditions during the measurement, closed-building conditions for 12 hours prior to the initiation of the measurement are a required condition for measurements lasting less than four days, and are recommended prior to measurements of up to a week in duration.

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

Originally Posted by kshepard

With the sun nuclear, it drops the first four hours of the test to comply with the EPA protocol. This is to give the home time to reach equilibrium. The 60 hour number is new to me.

From the EPA site...
"Indoor Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurement Device Protocols"
1.2.2 Measurement Conditions

The following conditions should exist prior to and during a measurement period to standardize the measurement conditions as much as possible. This list may be applied to each of the measurement methods discussed in Sections 2 and 3. However, there may also be method-specific conditions that are mentioned in the applicable protocol.
Short-term measurements lasting 90 days or less should be made under closed-building conditions. To the extent reasonable, all windows, outside vents, and external doors should be closed (except for normal entrance and exit) for 12 hours prior to and during the measurement period. Normal entrance and exit includes opening and closing a door, but an external door should not be left open for more than a few minutes. These conditions are expected to exist as normal living conditions during the winter in northern climates. For this reason, short-term measurements should be made during winter periods whenever possible.
In addition to maintaining closed-building conditions during the measurement, closed-building conditions for 12 hours prior to the initiation of the measurement are a required condition for measurements lasting less than four days, and are recommended prior to measurements of up to a week in duration.

So...if I close the house and start the monitor, run it for 60 hours and only use the last 48...Isn't that exactly what the EPA is recommending except the I don't have to keep running back and forth to the property just to start the machine?

[Tim Spargo]

It's my understanding to Note per EPA protocol to keep Closed Building conditions for Min. 12 hours prior to protocol.

Protocol Link / EPA Measurement protocol
http://www.epa.gov/radon/pdfs/homes_protocols.pdf


As far as your situation is concerned, your actions are correct. You have met the concerns for closed house conditions for the first 12 hours of the test if your are disregarding the first 12 hours as mentioned. I can see no problem with this and that is why some of the CRM's are set up that way.

Also, with charcoal canisters. The EPA still mentions in it's protocol for measurement the same closed conditions for 12 hours prior. If vacant, I'm usually assuming (try to ver. if poss) closed prior to me getting there. If occ'd, I would call as a reminder day before.

PS - For RE tests, any thougts anyone on CC's (charcoal) vs CRM for occupied dwellings and vacant dwellings. CRM's are pricey to not be there when I get back.... I'm lucky enough to have access to a lab close by here for CC's and same day results. Just my .02



Tim

[iniquette]

Originally Posted by sgilligan1

So...if I close the house and start the monitor, run it for 60 hours and only use the last 48...Isn't that exactly what the EPA is recommending except the I don't have to keep running back and forth to the property just to start the machine?

I would say yes. But the window is probably open anyway!!

[Frank J. Carey]

Scott,
You are correct with the additional 12. At my audit I asked the same question and that was their response. I think Chris D will back me up on that one as well.

[sprice]

Yes Scott, the 60 hours is the MINIMUM that you can leave the monitor when closed-house conditions were not maintained for 12 hours prior to your arrival. The you would ignore the first 12 hours of your CRM data when calculating the final test result. Extra data (i.e., leaving the monitor for another day or two) provides more information about the house conditions and radon patterns so I encourage longer test lengths when time permits.

Regarding Mr Valley's opinion on passive tests when the 12 hour period was not maintained, they are not consistent with the EPA Protocols. IN essence, when one arrives at a house with open windows and doors there are two options. 1) Close the windows for at least 12 hours and then make a return trip to start the test, which means extra gas and a third trip. Or, 2) Close the windows and doors, start the test, but the test MINIMUM is now 96 hours, or 4 full days.

This is a common mistake because EPA's guidance in the protocols is more vague in the abbreviated versions of their documents such as the Home Buyer's and Seller's Guide to Radon and A Citizen's Guide to Radon. Those documents were developed from two larger protocol documents, which I reference for you below:

Protocols for Indoor Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurement in Homes (EPA 402-R-92-003)
2.3.2 Closed – Building Conditions
"...In addition to maintaining closed-building conditions during the measurement, closed-building conditions for 12 hours prior to the initiation of the measurement are a required condition for measurements lasting less than four days..."
and
"In test lasting less than four days (96 hours), closed-house conditions should be maintained for at least 12 hours before conditions should be maintained while the test is in progress;..."
and
3.4 Measurement Checklist
• When doing short-term testing lasting less than four days, it is important to maintain closed building conditions for at least 12 hours before the beginning of the test and for the entire test period. Do not operate fans or other machines that bring in air from the outside.

Indoor Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurement Device Protocols (EPA 402-R-92-004)
1.2.2 Measurement Conditions
In addition to maintaining closed-building conditions during the measurement, closed-building conditions for 12 hours prior to the initiation of the measurement are a required condition for measurements lasting less than four days, and are recommended prior to measurements of up to a week in duration.

I hope this is helpful.

Shawn Price

http://radon.com
http://radon-pro.com

[David A. Andersen]

I don't play Grab ***** with owners.
If they are busted for non-compliance, I report the condition and send the report (which is useless) and let the parties involved hash it out. The seller can pay for the next test.

As far as I am concerned, testing a house you have no control over is not conducive to your potential future health and should not be relied upon.

"Closed house condition EPA protocol was not adhered to during this test as open windows and doors were observed during the testing period. The test results was....."

As a side note, how do you guys test new construction when there are all kinds of people coming-and-going to get ready for closing?

[William Thacker]

Does anyone think that a 60 hour test is realistic? Are any testers going to go back between 8pm and 8am to pick up the monitor? Personally I close up the house, instruct the homeowner about closed house conditions, and start a 3 day test and mathematically remove the first 24 hours. You now have 72 hours plus or minus 2 hours to pick up the detector. 2 more hours of leeway than with a standard 2 day test of 48 hourrs plus 2 hours.