Termites

[dthomas2]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

George,

Many inspectors arrange for the termite inspector by be on the property as a service for the customer. IF you do this, you are just as responsible as the damage as he is because you hired him (this is especially true if you pay for the termite insepction)

That being said, you are also responsible for identifing damaged wood, whether is is termite damaged or wood rot. If you see something that you think looks lilke termites, you need to mention it n your report as possible termite damage and refer to a specialist. I can tell you of many a law suit in florida due to damage like that in the last picture because the inspector did not crawl under the home. Termite or not, it is your responsibility to mention it in your report.

Not so fast William,

A Home Inspector's first obligation is to comply with state law - then to NACHI Standards. In Washington state a home inspector cannot comment on the occurrence of or a conducive condition of moisture penetration or wood destroying organism, be it by bug or fungi or flashing problem, except that the home inspector holds a Washington State Dept. of Ag. "Structural Pest Inspector" License. This is true if a neighbor points out to you that you have a termite or flashing problem. That is, the neighbor is violating Washington state law when he/she points this condition out to you (the home owner.)

"Washington" the weird State.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by dthomas2

Not so fast William,

A Home Inspector's first obligation is to comply with state law - then to NACHI Standards. In Washington state a home inspector cannot comment on the occurrence of or a conducive condition of moisture penetration or wood destroying organism, be it by bug or fungi or flashing problem, except that the home inspector holds a Washington State Dept. of Ag. "Structural Pest Inspector" License. This is true if a neighbor points out to you that you have a termite or flashing problem. That is, the neighbor is violating Washington state law when he/she points this condition out to you (the home owner.)

"Washington" the weird State.

Cmon Dennis, You know that isn't true. Anybody can point out whatever they want to point out in Washington unless they are doing it as part of a business. Instead of coming up with far fetched ideas like this, just attend one of the classes put on by the WSDA and they will answer all your questions......silly or not. You can try and bring up plumbers and leaks... roofers and leaks or rot or general contractors inspecting as part of a bid or repair of a property.....Simple ask the State. Those items are not part of the WSDA law as enacted. If you took the time to call Dr. Suomi and ask instead of wasting your time writing this nonsense, you would be doing yourself and your clients a great favor.

You and I have shared private emails on this subject and I understand how you are operating, but you keep stating things as fact that are not true. Take the class, get the license. You know what wood rot looks like. There is no difficulty in identifying termites, carpenter ants. Don't spread the wealth......Keep it for yourself.

[dthomas2]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

Cmon Dennis, You know that isn't true. Anybody can point out whatever they want to point out in Washington unless they are doing it as part of a business. Instead of coming up with far fetched ideas like this, just attend one of the classes put on by the WSDA and they will answer all your questions......silly or not. You can try and bring up plumbers and leaks... roofers and leaks or rot or general contractors inspecting as part of a bid or repair of a property.....Simple ask the State. Those items are not part of the WSDA law as enacted. If you took the time to call Dr. Suomi and ask instead of wasting your time writing this nonsense, you would be doing yourself and your clients a great favor.

You and I have shared private emails on this subject and I understand how you are operating, but you keep stating things as fact that are not true. Take the class, get the license. You know what wood rot looks like. There is no difficulty in identifying termites, carpenter ants. Don't spread the wealth......Keep it for yourself.

Well Steven, perhaps your question to me should have been "where did you get that understanding?" I do not take kindly to being accused as one who presents non-facts as facts! So, would you please get the facts before making accusations?

THE REST OF THE STORY:
Early in my investigation of the "FACTS" I called the Dept of Ag. There was some phone-passing until they got me to someone who seemed to understand the law. Here is the question I posed to her: "... so, if I were say, an electrician and in a crawl space drilling a hole, and while doing so I noticed a carpenter ant in the area and when visiting with the home owner I mentioned the sighting of the carpentar ant - am I in violation of Washington State Law." She briefly hesitated and followed, "yes, you would be in violation of law."

So, apparently you have proposed the same question and received a different answer. Have you? I am sorry Steven, I have to go with what I was told by an authority of the Washington State Department of Agriculture.
If the person on the phone was wrong, I can't have her pass the phone to someone else until I get the answer I want to hear or and answer that seems correct. If they are wrong they need to show themselves on this bulletin board and correct their error. Otherwise, the rest of North America has, with clear conscience, heard the truth and can with confidence believe that our legislators are idiots.

Given that I have simply quoted the response that was given to me dont you owe me something? Like an apology!!

[dthomas2]

Originally Posted by dthomas2

Well Steven, perhaps your question to me should have been "where did you get that understanding?" I do not take kindly to being accused as one who presents non-facts as facts! So, would you please get the facts before making accusations?

THE REST OF THE STORY:
Early in my investigation of the "FACTS" I called the Dept of Ag. There was some phone-passing until they got me to someone who seemed to understand the law. Here is the question I posed to her: "... so, if I were say, an electrician and in a crawl space drilling a hole, and while doing so I noticed a carpenter ant in the area and when visiting with the home owner I mentioned the sighting of the carpentar ant - am I in violation of Washington State Law." She briefly hesitated and followed, "yes, you would be in violation of law."

So, apparently you have proposed the same question and received a different answer. Have you? I am sorry Steven, I have to go with what I was told by an authority of the Washington State Department of Agriculture.
If the person on the phone was wrong, I can't have her pass the phone to someone else until I get the answer I want to hear or and answer that seems correct. If they are wrong they need to show themselves on this bulletin board and correct their error. Otherwise, the rest of North America has, with clear conscience, heard the truth and can with confidence believe that our legislators are idiots.

Given that I have simply quoted the response that was given to me dont you owe me something? Like an apology!!

Oh, one more thing. During my conversation with the Department of Agriculture NO distinction was made as to whether or not a business act was in process. Besides, suppose you are right and that a "business" can't reveal what was seen? So, if a Lawn & Garden company noticed a WDO (Termite for instance) and mentioned it to the home owner he, the businessman, is a criminal. That is equally idiotic in my mind.

[Greg Veal]

I thought the Ga. DoA was tough, but it sounds like WA. DoA is out of control.

The Ga. DoA will go after individuals or Companies suspected of marketing or trying to sell WDO or PCO products or services to the public, that are not Registered, Licenced with the DoA.

I understand they have even cited some H/I's that have gotten carried away with their opinions to the Client and/or R/E Agent. The complaint is lodged with DoA, they investigate, explain the law, maybe even a warning or fine.
I've never heard of an Electrician, Builder, Neighbor, etc. of getting into trouble for "being a good neighbor" and identifying a potential problem and recommending that they call and get help from a Pest Control Co.

I wear one hat at a time. If I'm a H/I with that client, I won't change or comingle my services. I recommend calling for an inspection from a professional, to confirm my sitings and concerns.

[Erby Crofutt]

But they are such cute little buggers.

[Greg Veal]

Erby

Great shot of workers. Termites and Cockroachs will be here, when were dust and a memory.

[dthomas2]

Originally Posted by gveal

I thought the Ga. DoA was tough, but it sounds like WA. DoA is out of control.

Originally Posted by gveal

The Ga. DoA will go after individuals or Companies suspected of marketing or trying to sell WDO or PCO products or services to the public, that are not Registered, Licenced with the DoA.

I understand they have even cited some H/I's that have gotten carried away with their opinions to the Client and/or R/E Agent. The complaint is lodged with DoA, they investigate, explain the law, maybe even a warning or fine.
I've never heard of an Electrician, Builder, Neighbor, etc. of getting into trouble for "being a good neighbor" and identifying a potential problem and recommending that they call and get help from a Pest Control Co.

I wear one hat at a time. If I'm a H/I with that client, I won't change or comingle my services. I recommend calling for an inspection from a professional, to confirm my sitings and concerns.

Greg,

Well, if I was incorrectly informed I apologize, in advance, of the correct information. This is not the first time that I have posted this info and have not yet heard a contrary opinion from a State official - but the point of the post was to ensure that those who read these things don't get a notion that NACHI has some sort of agreement with certain states that allow our Standars to overrule State law. It is difficult for us to say how someone in another state should conduct a home inspection if we are not intimately familiar with that states law. That was really all I should have said.

Because I have not secured the SPI license in Washington I am not even allowed to report flashing problems. Crazy as it is, it is the law - so I pay an SPI to join me at the site. Turns out that this gives me more time to investigate the mechanical/construction details of the home and as such the client gets a more comprehensive inspection than I could give by myself. I do charge more than the average inspector in the Spokane Area. In addition, and thanks to posts made by Russell Ray, this week I added a $1199.00 inspection (for the client that insist on having the most expensive Home Inspection in town.) I may not do one of these, or it may be a year or two before I do, but when it comes I will be most thankful for our healthy capitalistic economy. Keep the following under your hat: I have asked a company to develop a lightweight, easy to use Floor/Wall System Integrity Tester for the Home Inspection industry. We are hopeful to bring this product to the market within the next 12 months. More on this later.

Steven,
We need to go fishing together and put this politics aside!

Lewis,
Thank you for accepting the fact that my operation is legal; and, I am happy to send you a copy of my 2006 & 2007 Business Licenses if you were not able to find on our WashingtonState web site. Hey, why not join Steven on our fishing trip?

[Greg Veal]

Dennis

Tell your Client about me if he decides to buy/invest in the North Georgia area. He will love the area (all 4 seasons).

Seriously, I get a few of those a year, and they are always a nice surprise.

Good Luck

[lcapaul]

Lewis,
Thank you for accepting the fact that my operation is legal; and, I am happy to send you a copy of my 2006 & 2007 Business Licenses if you were not able to find on our WashingtonState web site. Hey, why not join Steven on our fishing trip? -->>

Sorry Dennis, after my conversation with Dr. Soumi last week I know that in the view of the WSDA you are technically performing ILLEGAL Inspections, if you, in your Inspection Report mention anything that may be conducive to WDO damage and you do not have an SPI License you are in vilolation of the Law even if you use a Sub for the WDO Inspection. unless you Sub takes full responsibility and assumes full liability for the Home Inspection, DR. Soumi's words not mine. I've argued over this asinine law more with soumi than I have with you or any other NACHI Member, last week I asked him specifically about the use of Subs, that was his answer.
Me, I don't see anything wrong with subbing out the WDO Inspection, other than you could be putting the money in your pocket, but I didn't write the Law. Those of us who have argued with Soumi know that it is almost useless, in the end he wins by saying "It's The Law".

As far as your business licenses I did findyou under Thomas Property Management LLC, but not under TPM, llc, when I set up my LLC in WA. I had to show all the alliases or names that my LLC would be called, maybe your abbreviation isn't "registared", I was searching for the number of NACHI Inspectors in Eastern Washington who had business licenses at all, as TPM, you don't show up.

Other than making NACHI and its members look bad by your lack of SPI LIcense, I don't care if you have one or not, but you shouldn't get upset because I mention in my marketing and on my website the Washington State Requirements and the fact that many Inspectors are not Licensed SPI's. If I buy a new IR Camera to use during Inspections I'll mention that in my marketing too.

Have you checked with your E&O Insurance provider to find out if your Sub Needs to be listed on your Policy? My Allen Insurance Policy requires it, if your sub misses something that could lead to a lawsuit, it will be you that will be sued, the sub will just be an add on.

Like Steve said, talk to Dr Soumi, not some woman in the Office.

Fly Fishing's been great, at least until all the rain the past couple of Weeks, the water in the North Fork of the CD'A River has risen way to high, hopefully it will drop with this cold weather.

http://structuralpest.wsu.edu/index.html

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Curious question?

Isn't Washington State about the same Latitude as Maine?
So why do they have termites and we don't?
Maybe they have not been able to walk this far. ha. ha.

In either case, if we did see them here in Maine and I would notice in an Inspection, I sure the hell would care less where the Department of Agriculture were or have been.
I would note it as a potential WSDA and recommend further evaluation by a Qualified Bug Exterminator.

Then I would move on. Page two.

Marcel

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[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Curious question?

Isn't Washington State about the same Latitude as Maine?
So why do they have termites and we don't?
Maybe they have not been able to walk this far. ha. ha.

In either case, if we did see them here in Maine and I would notice in an Inspection, I sure the hell would care less where the Department of Agriculture were or have been.
I would note it as a potential WSDA and recommend further evaluation by a Qualified Bug Exterminator.

Then I would move on. Page two.

Marcel

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Marcel,

I agree with you, but Washington State has a Law that requires a Home Inspector to have a Structural Pest Inspector License for any Inspection where he even mentions conditions conducive to WDO damage. Nachi's COE states that member must abide by all State and Local Laws, whether we like them or not.

I tend to agree with Dennis that the HI should be able to Sub Out the WDO Inspection, WSDA doesn't agree with either of us and it would be almost impossible to follow the NACHI SOP and not mention thing condusive the WDO.......It's like I've said before, there are no Home Inspectors in Washington State, only Licensed Structural Pest Inspectors doing Home Inspections on the side.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Marcel,

I agree with you, but Washington State has a Law that requires a Home Inspector to have a Structural Pest Inspector License for any Inspection where he even mentions conditions conducive to WDO damage. Nachi's COE states that member must abide by all State and Local Laws, whether we like them or not. So what are you required when you do notice this existence of such WDO and not licensed?

I agree also, but question remains, what do you say or do, not a thing?

.......

.

So. that makes everything right, and now we have LSPI's doing our job as a moonlight excursion and double dipping?
Something just seems wrong with this picture.
Pardon my ignorance for this part of the Country, but something just don't seem ethical in all of this.

Marcel
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[dthomas2]

Originally Posted by gveal

Dennis

Tell your Client about me if he decides to buy/invest in the North Georgia area. He will love the area (all 4 seasons).

Seriously, I get a few of those a year, and they are always a nice surprise.

Good Luck

Nice to hear. I'll definitely send them to you.

[lcapaul]

Marcel,

My
"No Home Inspectors in Washington State....." was a comment on the lack of licensing requirements for Home Inspectors within the State, but the mandatory licensing of those doing Home Inspections as Structrual Pest Inspectors. As SPI's we don't treat any conditions we find, we refer them to Pest Control Companines, just like we would in accordance to our SOP's

So what are you required when you do notice this existence of such WDO and not licensed? You cannot legally Report it, even if you have hired a Sub to do the WDO Inspection, the Sub would have to sign off on your HOme Inspection and assume full liability. The requirement for licensing is simple, an easy test Identifying WDO's and a $45 fee, along with a $25,000 Bond or Insurance.

So. that makes everything right, and now we have LSPI's doing our job as a moonlight excursion and double dipping?
Something just seems wrong with this picture. Are we Home Inspectors or Structural Pest Inspectors? We don't need a "Home Inspector" license to be a Home Inspector but we do need an SPI License, so what are we?

The law says that anyone who performs WDO Inspections for the sale, transfer exchange, or refinancing of any structure in Washington State must be licensed. WSDA's and the Law's claim is that any mention of conditions conducive to WDO is an inspection and it would be very rare to do a Home Inspection Report without mentioning at least some of the conducive conditions. What's really stupid is that the State Legislators never made WDO Inspections mandatory for ALL sales, transfers, exchanges, refinances of Structures in Washington, its mandatory only for those which have Home Inspections. At least if they had made WDO Inspections mandatory for all Sale etc., it would give us another market of doing straight WDO Inspections.

Washington is an Agriculture State, and the Pesticide INdustry has a lot of power, what they have done is to pass off the costs and liability of the WDO Inspections to us, while still getting the referals for any damage we find. If the Law was designed to protect the consumer it would have made WDO Inspections Mandatory for all Real Estate Tranactions involving Structures. Its a Bulls*** Law, but then there are lots of those in this country.