Why 2 Outdoor Samples?

[Eragorn Northe]

I found a lab that has been awsome.
EMLab P&K www.emlab.com

[Russell J. Hensel]

[Russell J. Hensel]

As I sit and read the responses I see some people are geared towards how to better serve the client and others are geared towards how can I make a buck. NOTHING IS FREE! Unless you get samples and they read them and give you the results with no exchange of money...then its free.

We are in a mold hot spot because of our climate, and if any of the reputable professionals get a report from one certain lab, they throw it out and retest. They do not accept the results as valid because the labs reputation has not been a stellar one. Although inexpensive, its not well respected in the professional mold arena. So think of quality and not so much on saving a buck and what you get for free. If you want to look professional than use professional services.

I only use professional references for my analysis and to refer to and to show the client I know what I am doing. I don't say "Well thats what Ben said!" I can go to several different references such as IICRC S500, IICRC S520, and the one pictured above to prove that it is not my OPINION, it is written in black and white! Some situations require thought and experience based analysis to determine what to do, but most of these are cut and dry. If -----happen, this is what you do. I only take one exterior sample. There may come a day when its needed, but so far only need one. Why? Because its stated right here in the the ISO manual which has been admitted into court as a professional reference for mold analysis such as the other books I mentioned.

EPA states if visual mold is seen no testing is needed. I have no idea how one can provide a course of action for remediation without knowing what is going on within the residence. Is the mold Penicillium/Aspergillus? Is it Stachybotrys? Is it Spegazzinia? All these things tell you a story of the mold situation within the residence. Now for me, the mold count tells you what you should DO. If its only 200 spores over the exterior species...thats different than if its 25,000 spores over the exterior. There is only one way to know...thats to test! It is also nice to know the air quality BEFORE the remediation and AFTER the remediation. And there is nothing in my contract that MOLD IS Required...its all up to the person requesting the test. For this I disagree with the EPA.

[William J. Decker]

Above. Well said.

Remediation for Stacy as opposed to Pen/ Asper vs. Cladosprium is VERY different.

And DO NOT hire two Romanian guys in a white panel van to do the clean-up.

Hope this helps;

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by rhensel

Attachment 33283

Attachment 33284

Attachment 33285

Attachment 33286

If I read that correctly, IESO 4.1.3 states collecting one outdoor sample is a minimum requirement.

[Joseph Burley]

Two samples gives a limited picture of variability--mold spore trap testing, even duplicates run side by side, rarely are in close agreement. Even two samples is not scientifically and statistically valid for most purposes but is good enough given the cost limitations for this very inexact science.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

I suggest that IAC2's Mold Inspection Standards are excellent for those inspectors who focus on serving their client.

Some inspectors grow in their practices, thinking it their duty to accept the standards written by ISO, IESO, IAQ, forgetting that those standards of ISO, IESO, IAQ were not written by the world's largest, most accredited association of inspectors, but by mycologists. IAC2 Mold Inspection Standards were designed primarily for the professional property inspector; all others, were not. All other mold inspection standards do not take into account the enormous capacity, knowledge and skills of an professional property inspector.

Compared side by side, the inspector who follows the IAC2 Standards of Practice serves their client better than the inspector who does not.

In my experience, the inspector who focuses on improving service tends to prosper.

The inspector who focuses on selling more samples, does not.

[KEVIN WOOD]

If I had it my way I would do 4 samples outside and 4 samples inside in all.
This would provide the most accurate test. However most people can not afford the $1000 dollar price tag so 2 and 2 is better making it 500.00 plus inspection. This has worked well for me and is recommended by Certified Environmental Professional Inspectors

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Very good.

We developed a Decision Chart to assist mold inspectors.
Sampling is based not upon $, but upon condition of the building as observed by the inspector.

This helps explain to anyone (potential customers, agents, occupants) what is being done by the inspector, and hence, what fees are associated with the service.

[Russell J. Hensel]

Is there a court system who has recognized IAQ2? From what I know the IICRC S520 and IICRC S500 have held up in court.

Lets see the worlds largest organization for Property inspectors concerning mold is well, FREE. Just because its the biggest does not mean its the best.

The only company that I have heard (not saying there is not other out there, just have not heard of) that require 2 exterior samples is Pro Lab...with their reading of 1/3 the slide and the great (F) BBB rating makes me wonder. At one time they also had a remediation company. Conflict of interest? LMAO, I would say so. But from what I understand the big push for Pro Lab is that Nick funded it from what I hear or is/was financially tied to it. If that is fact or not, I do not know. But there seems to be another conflict of interest. But who cares I would never use them or refer to IAQ2 protocols. Seems to me that a mycologist would know a bit more about mold then a Home Inspector...but thats just my crazy thoughts.

I would never use or recommend a lab with a (F) BBB rating. That reflects poorly on me. Even if the cases are wrong, there was no response to them or nothing. So if they don't care about their reputation, why should I?

ANY of the larger remediation labs in SW Florida that sees a Pro Lab report, they automatically throw it out and get another test.

If they want QUALITY read 100% of the slide, but why should they do that? They make more money by getting more slides.

Use IAQ2 and tell them HOME INSPECTORS wrote the protocols and were written with the Home Inspector who dabbles in mold. I would rather be viewed as a Professional Home Inspector and Professional Mold assessor. To each his own...

http://www.bbb.org/south-east-florid...on-fl-25000636

They don't even respond to customer complaints. NICE...

[Nick Gromicko]

The world's largest inspection trade association, the world's largest mold laboratory, the most approved mold course, the best selling mold inspection book, and the world's leading mycologist, all say to do 2 outdoor samples the way IAC2's SOP says to. But you are free to try and make the argument in court that they are all wrong. Some mold inspectors incorrectly don't take any outdoor samples.

Perhaps, ask Dr. Shane to explain why you need to take 2 when you meet him on Friday: www.nachi.org/florida.htm

[Russell J. Hensel]

Thats OK. I tend to leave questions to UNBIASED people. Asking a guy who owns a mold lab how many samples to take seems a bit biased.

Somehow you have BIG related to QUALITY...when you GIVE away memberships it hard to be SMALL.

If they want quality, READ 100% of the SLIDE. They will not do this because it takes TOO MUCH TIME and takes away PROFIT.

Nick you have this infatuation with BIG AND HUGE and somehow equate that to GOOD AND SUPERIOR. We just look at things different is all.

I have been to Pro Lab about 10 years ago and was NOT IMPRESSED at all. I visit EVERY mold lab I use and see how they operate. What you fail to see that that I am very conscious of the people and companies I use. Because when I use them they become a direction reflection me.

You can keep pushing an inferior lab all you want. I know its reputation here, I, first hand, have been harmed by their company and I see no benefit in people pushing "QUALITY" and then reading 1/3 of the slide. Makes no sense, except to you. Because me, unlike you have no financial gain.

[rsmith24]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

I suggest that IAC2's Mold Inspection Standards are excellent for those inspectors who focus on serving their client.

Some inspectors grow in their practices, thinking it their duty to accept the standards written by ISO, IESO, IAQ, forgetting that those standards of ISO, IESO, IAQ were not written by the world's largest, most accredited association of inspectors, but by mycologists. IAC2 Mold Inspection Standards were designed primarily for the professional property inspector; all others, were not. All other mold inspection standards do not take into account the enormous capacity, knowledge and skills of an professional property inspector.

Compared side by side, the inspector who follows the IAC2 Standards of Practice serves their client better than the inspector who does not.

In my experience, the inspector who focuses on improving service tends to prosper.

The inspector who focuses on selling more samples, does not.

(top highlighted) That is like saying go by what is said here at InterNachi as opposed to a asbestos laboratory technician.

(bottom highlighted) I thought is was IAQ2 sop that called for more air samples.

[Nick Gromicko]

Russell, read the title of the thread again. It has nothing to do with laboratories.

It is IAC2's SOP that calls for two outdoor air samples. And we've all explained why you need two.

But take one or none if you think that one or or none is better than two. Just don't go into court and try to make the highly scientific argument that fewer is better because you "visited PRO-LAB 10 about years ago." LOL!

[rsmith24]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Russell, read the title of the thread again. It has nothing to do with laboratories.

It is IAC2's SOP that calls for two outdoor air samples. And we've all explained why you need two.

But take one or none if you think that one or or none is better than two. Just don't go into court and try to make the highly scientific argument that fewer is better because you "visited PRO-LAB 10 about years ago." LOL!

That wont work Nick?