Circulating pump

[Michael J. Merino]

I have this circulating pump attached to a pipe from the drain valve of the water heater and rises up through the floor. I am not able to determine where the pipe goes and the homeowner was not at the inspection. Anyone know if this is an acceptable installation?

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

More info required this might help I have one in my home and love it .
Did you get instant hot water at the bath,kitcn ect . ... Roy

https://www.wattspremier.com/product...ulating-System

[Michael J. Merino]

Originally Posted by rcooke

More info required this might help I have one in my home and love it .
Did you get instant hot water at the bath,kitcn ect . ... Roy

https://www.wattspremier.com/product...ulating-System

We did get instant hot water in the upper level bathroom. As you can see there are 2 50 gallon water heaters that feed to one hot water supply. Except where this pump is at. My questions is whether the pump can be installed in this fashion. Is it ok to be connected to the drain for the water heater? Why not at the hot water supply pipe?

[John Gromkoski]

Originally Posted by mmerino

We did get instant hot water in the upper level bathroom. As you can see there are 2 50 gallon water heaters that feed to one hot water supply. Except where this pump is at. My questions is whether the pump can be installed in this fashion. Is it ok to be connected to the drain for the water heater? Why not at the hot water supply pipe?

I think the pump is returning the cooler water back to the water heater.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Unusual hook up I expect this is pulling water from the Upper bath hot water feed all the time so it has hot water through the home .
.
I would write it up as unusual pump on drain line of water heater further evaluation by plumber .

[Michael Larson]

Very common way to connect a hot water recirculating line and pump and check valve.

Usually runs to the most remote fixture in the home.

Look for the tee in for the return line under the farthest away bathroom vanity.

Nothing to write up.

[John Gromkoski]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Very common way to connect a hot water recirculating line and pump and check valve.

Usually runs to the most remote fixture in the home.

Look for the tee in for the return line under the farthest away bathroom vanity.

Nothing to write up.

Agreed.

Just explain to your client what it is.

[Bob Elliott]

Just saw this.
Yes it is common.
Nothing wrong unless not functioning.

http://www.askthebuilder.com/B413_Ho...ion_Tips.shtml

Final Connection

As the loop returns to the water heater it connects at the low point of the heater. This is always the location of the heater drain valve. This valve is simply screwed into the heater. Attach a wrench to the valve and turn counterclockwise. It will come out.

Install an insulated nipple in place of the valve. This will minimize corrosion possibilities. Then as soon as possible install a tee fitting with female threads at the tee. If you use the right one, the drain valve will screw right back into the tee. The other end of the fitting allows you to connect the loop to the heater.

Shut Off Valves

While on the subject of valves, let's talk about the shut off valves on top of hot water heaters. I have seen some aggressive homeowners install a shut off valve on both the hot and cold water line. They thought this would help in the event they need to switch out the heater. Well it does help. It also creates a potential BOMB.

If some idiot turns off both valves (happens everyday somewhere), and the pressure relief valve malfunctions or was never installed, and the heater thermostat malfunctions, the heater will explode. It has happened more than once.

Hope to see you at NACHI Chicago tonight.
I am updating website but not active yet.Could use pictures and ideas.http://nachichicago.homeinspectorpro.us/

[Bruce A. King]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Very common way to connect a hot water recirculating line and pump and check valve.

Usually runs to the most remote fixture in the home.

Look for the tee in for the return line under the farthest away bathroom vanity.

Nothing to write up.

I agree, nothing to write up but you will not find a Tee valve in this setup.
This house has a dedicated hot loop with the pump in a hot return line, the Tee types uses a cold water line to return back to the tank.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bking

I agree, nothing to write up but you will not find a Tee valve in this setup.
This house has a dedicated hot loop with the pump in a hot return line, the Tee types uses a cold water line to return back to the tank.

And the "hot" return line is tee'ed into the farthest fixtures hot/warm supply unless you mean something else.

[Bruce A. King]

The black valve in this picture is what you were talking about in your first post right?

https://www.wattspremier.com/product...ulating-System

See where it says "no return pipe needed".

The original post shows a system with a dedicted return line.

The systems that use that black t-valve thing have the pump installed right at the hot water outlet of the tank not at the drain line or feeding back into the cold circuit..

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by bking

The black valve in this picture is what you were talking about in your first post right?

https://www.wattspremier.com/product...ulating-System

See where it says "no return pipe needed".

The original post shows a system with a dedicted return line.

The systems that use that black t-valve thing have the pump installed right at the hot water outlet of the tank not at the drain line or feeding back into the cold circuit..

With the Watts system, you will be wasting some cold water (clawback water waste) as the cold water line will be warmed somewhat by the warm water (they claim cold/cool water) circulating back to tank through the cold water lines. You will end up draining away this warmed water if you want "cold" water at that tap. Be sure to keep some cold water in the fridge!!

IMO, with these "instant" hot water recirculation systems (for homes, an unecessary luxury being transferred from motels/hotels/office towers where it works well), there is always an increase in water heating energy as the heat from the pipes dissipates into the house. In predominately cooling climates, this adds to the cooling bills!!

I have experience with 2 of these systems in our predominantly heating climate (90%+ of the year):

One was in a 1 year old house- I was called to the house for litigation against the builder (unfinished items/poorly done finishes/ HVAC cooling problems).

While there I noticed that the mechanical room in what should be a normally cool basement, (16-18*C [60-65*F]here), was 28*C (82.5*F). The uninsulated PEX water pipes also ran through an open "space joist" floor framing system losing heat which was heating the main floors. Other items regarding the cooling problems was a poorly designed/executed duct system serving a south facing area of the home wth large windows.

The other house was a multi-million $ home- tax rolls say it's worth $3.5 million but on the street people say it's worth $8-9 million:

Similar items to mentioned above.....the library faced south with large windows and uninsulated hot water recirculating pipes ran upstairs through a partion wall (10 ft high) turning a section of the wall into a radiant heater....for sunny days in June, July, August, the library would not cool properly.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bking

The black valve in this picture is what you were talking about in your first post right?

https://www.wattspremier.com/product...ulating-System

See where it says "no return pipe needed".

The original post shows a system with a dedicted return line.

The systems that use that black t-valve thing have the pump installed right at the hot water outlet of the tank not at the drain line or feeding back into the cold circuit..

The tee you are talking about is a crossover fitting between the old and hot supply and uses the cold line to return water to the heater to be reheated.

We are on the same page but using different language.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

With the Watts system, you will be wasting some cold water (clawback water waste) as the cold water line will be warmed somewhat by the warm water (they claim cold/cool water) circulating back to tank through the cold water lines. You will end up draining away this warmed water if you want "cold" water at that tap. Be sure to keep some cold water in the fridge!!
The cold water from my tap is usually same as Home temp...
IMO, with these "instant" hot water recirculation systems (for homes, an unecessary luxury being transferred from motels/hotels/office towers where it works well), there is always an increase in water heating energy as the heat from the pipes dissipates into the house. In predominately cooling climates, this adds to the cooling bills!!
.In a cold area the heat is not lost as I have to pay to heat my home ,
The directions show you how to use the timer ,it can be on and off as aften as you set the time in 1/2 hour sections .With this method a huge amount of water is saved not having to run the Hot water tap waiting for warm water ..
I have experience with 2 of these systems in our predominantly heating climate (90%+ of the year):

One was in a 1 year old house- I was called to the house for litigation against the builder (unfinished items/poorly done finishes/ HVAC cooling problems).
.We all know of many things not done corectly by the builder..
While there I noticed that the mechanical room in what should be a normally cool basement, (16-18*C [60-65*F]here), was 28*C (82.5*F). The uninsulated PEX water pipes also ran through an open "space joist" floor framing system losing heat which was heating the main floors. Other items regarding the cooling problems was a poorly designed/executed duct system serving a south facing area of the home wth large windows.

The other house was a multi-million $ home- tax rolls say it's worth $3.5 million but on the street people say it's worth $8-9 million:

Similar items to mentioned above.....the library faced south with large windows and uninsulated hot water recirculating pipes ran upstairs through a partion wall (10 ft high) turning a section of the wall into a radiant heater....for sunny days in June, July, August, the library would not cool properly.

.WOW! so simple a fix set the timer if it was the problem,
I do not feel that was the concern .
What was the temp of the water mine is set at 115 °F at the tap and I am sure this setting would not do what you said was happening.
Tank tenp is 150°F ( Code Requirement ) so we have a huge reserve of hot water at all times
Having Had this system for a couple of years we are very satisfied to have hot water at all appliances instantly
Long Live The king..

[Michael Larson]

Shut up Roy