Do you put polybutylene in the Summary?

[brepanshek]

I still have trouble identifying PB. I ran into piping labeled QUEST it had copper crimp rings at connections, anyone heard of this, I was told this is not PB? How best to be sure what I'm looking at is PB???

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Have you read the site that describes the $1,000,000,000 PB settlement?

http://www.pbpipe.com/photos.htm

Try typing "quest polybutylene" at Google.

[jschulte]

I believe QUEST also produces PEX.

[William E. Siegel]

If its grey, its poly.

[pdoane]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Last week, a deal fell through because the house had PB plumbing. The listing agent was livid at me because I put the item about PB pipes in the Summary.

My reasoning for putting it in the Summary is because NC requires the following to be in the Summary: "systems or components do not function as intended, adversely affects the habitability of the dwelling, requires repair or subsequent observation, or warrants further investigation by a qualified specialist." I thought PB fell into that category since I referred it to a plumber.

Questions for fellow inspectors:

1) Do you put a PB pipe discovery in the Summary?

2) Would you share your verbage? Here's mine:

"The water supply pipes are Polybutylene plastic (PB). This system of plumbing has experienced a higher than normal rate of problems associated with leaks where the pipes are joined together. There is also a current theory that chemicals in municipal water systems react with the piping and resins in the fittings, weakening the pipes and joints. The manufacturers have been involved with and settled class action lawsuits alleging manufacturing defects with this plumbing system containing plastic or metal insert fittings (including copper and brass). For more information about PB, see http://www.polybutylene.com, and http://www.pbpipe.com. We recommend that you do your own research on this type of plumbing system and rely on the evaluation and advice of a licensed plumbing contractor prior to the close of escrow."

Here is a link to another PB thread I started. Check out the pic. When I opened the water heater closet in the Manuf. home,.. the PB supply line had a small leak at a connection that had gone unnoticed for some time... now I can say (and believe) PB has potential issues first hand. Nice mold growth on the wall too.
http://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/pb-inspection-8838/

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

I modified my text slightly since www.polybutylene.com is a commercial website. The Realtor's complaint about that as a reference has some validity.

"The water supply pipes are Polybutylene plastic (PB). This system of plumbing has experienced a higher than normal rate of problems associated with leaks where the pipes are joined together. There is also a current theory that chemicals in municipal water systems react with the piping and resins in the fittings, weakening the pipes and joints. Heat may also cause the pipes to deteriorate and burst. The manufacturers have settled a class action lawsuit alleging manufacturing defects with this plumbing system containing plastic or metal insert fittings (including copper and brass). For more information about PB, see http://www.pbpipe.com and other Internet resources. We recommend that you do your own research on this type of plumbing system and rely on the evaluation and advice of a licensed plumbing contractor prior to the close of escrow."


Also, the buyer has hired me to do another one for her next week.

[Terry Neyedli]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Last week, a deal fell through because the house had PB plumbing. The listing agent was livid at me because I put the item about PB pipes in the Summary.

My reasoning for putting it in the Summary is because NC requires the following to be in the Summary: "systems or components do not function as intended, adversely affects the habitability of the dwelling, requires repair or subsequent observation, or warrants further investigation by a qualified specialist." I thought PB fell into that category since I referred it to a plumber.

Questions for fellow inspectors:

1) Do you put a PB pipe discovery in the Summary?

2) Would you share your verbage? Here's mine:

"The water supply pipes are Polybutylene plastic (PB). This system of plumbing has experienced a higher than normal rate of problems associated with leaks where the pipes are joined together. There is also a current theory that chemicals in municipal water systems react with the piping and resins in the fittings, weakening the pipes and joints. The manufacturers have been involved with and settled class action lawsuits alleging manufacturing defects with this plumbing system containing plastic or metal insert fittings (including copper and brass). For more information about PB, see http://www.polybutylene.com, and http://www.pbpipe.com. We recommend that you do your own research on this type of plumbing system and rely on the evaluation and advice of a licensed plumbing contractor prior to the close of escrow."

It is called CYA.
If you do not you had better have a damd good contract and/or bags of money.
Refer it to a plumber familiar with this stuff.
T.Neyedli
www.alphahomeinspections.ca

[Scott Keiper]

Originally Posted by jschulte

I believe QUEST also produces PEX.

Is PEX different from polybutylene?

[Brian E. Kelly]

PEX is Polyethelene (Cross Linked) much different.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Right and PEX is sometimes gray, so one needs to learn how to spot the difference.
http://www.pexconnection.com/PEX%20C...LOG%202004.pdf

[Bruce A. King]

Page 9 of that pdf shows some gray PB 2110 being spliced with PEX.

I don't see any gray pex in this catalog and have not seen any in houses.
The clear/milky PEX might look gray in some light conditions with some cameras. Anyone have a picture of gray PEX?

[Brian E. Kelly]

There is silver pex in this catalog Bruce, it has Aluminum added to it.
http://www.pexheat.com/catalog/downl...4a362ffab95500

[cwillick1]

Question from a newbie.

i understand where you live forces you to put the information about polybutylene in your summary. Would you normally put so much info about something that could at sometime be a possible problem, in your reports? i was once told if its not broken why would you suggest fixing it, were not here to make an old house new..

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I don't have a summary in my report, at all, since their main purpose is to provide a real estate salesman with a "checklist" and my reports are not written for real estate salesmen.

Just as my client will, the salesman will have to read through the entire report and will not be able to infer from a "summary" that any area of concern omitted was not intended to be addressed.

If any state law (as a result of the real estate salesmen's lobby) actually required a summary, then my summary would list every concern noted in my report.

Ditto...

No summery in my reports. Why give the Realtor a tool to
water down the rest of the report?

Yes... I include comments about PB pipes. The Client deserves to know.
End of story.

If the plumbing leaks all over the house, you can at least say
I told you so...

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Gray PEX; brand name Merflex