Do you put polybutylene in the Summary?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by cwillick1

Question from a newbie.

...Would you normally put so much info about something that could at sometime be a possible problem, in your reports? i was once told if its not broken why would you suggest fixing it, were not here to make an old house new..

Replacing PB piping can be a significant expense and the client should understand the possible consequences of buying a home with it present.

Your argument about not fixing what ain't broke doesn't hold up in this business. Do you wait until the roof leaks to have it evaluated and replaced? Do you wait until the kid walks through the untempered glass before replacing the door? Do you want to replace the balusters 3 feet apart before someone falls through or wait to see if it's really a problem? Etc., etc.

I am not trying to make an old house new. I'm reporting the condition of the home and the potential financial impact of buying a home with problematic components. If you don't think that's important, you should speak with your attorney.

[jbreazeale]

Joe,
This is dang close to the comment I use...and the pbpipe.com website. I do add that pb pipe is commonly used in the area, was and is accepted practice, but has a higher than average failure rate. Then I refer them to the site. Just softens the language a little bit. But I make sure to call it, even when just pb risers are used!

[bdoles2]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Also, the buyer has hired me to do another one for her next week.

This proves you've done the right thing. Good job!

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Polybutylene piping present in the home has been the subject of a national class action lawsuit involving certain polybutylene plumbing systems and polybutylene yard service lines installed between January 1, 1978 through July 31, 1995.

While scientific evidence is scarce, it is believed that oxidants in the public water supplies, such as chlorine, react with the polybutylene piping and acetal fittings causing them to scale and flake and become brittle. Micro-fractures result, and the basic structural integrity of the system is reduced. The system may become weak and fail without warning causing damage to the building structure and personal property. It is virtually impossible to detect installation problems throughout an entire system.

Throughout the 1980's lawsuits were filed complaining of allegedly defective manufacturing and defective installation causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. Although the manufacturers have never admitted that poly is defective, they agreed to fund the Class Action settlement with an initial and minimum amount of $950 million. You'll have to contact the appropriate settlement claim company to find out if you qualify under this settlement.
To find out more about this settlement visit http://www.pbpipe.com/faq_gnrl.htm#G11

[asargisian]

hey good work on the finding and the responsability, of the home inspector. you did your job of as a home inspector, if she wants to bicker about it and she lost a clint because of it , well i think you saved a family of trouble heart ache and future problems. Now what you should do is to report her to the Board of Realtor on her actions against you. if this is how she works and doesnt care about her clients welfare, she shouldnt be selling homes. write aleeter explaining the facts about the plumbing the lawsuit detailed info and watch what the Board will do with her . with my business i follow the rules of NACHI, ICC the Board of Reators and my self. I HOPE YOU TAKE ACTION AGAINST HER. YOU DID YOUR DUTY. GOOD LUCK GREAT JOB....

[James E. Braun, CMI]

I do not want to sound negative but the odds of the local Board of Realtors doing anything to her, expect a slap on the hand is pretty slim. You will get more results with the state regulating board. She might even get a little bruise on her hand. But keep in mind if you rely on real estate salesman referrals, they will probably drop for awhile if you report her when the word gets around.

[tneyedli1]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Here was my reply to the nice lady:

"About the reference in my report to a particular website, here’s the definition of informational: “Knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance.”

Please note this fact about PB in NC: “The North Carolina Home Inspector Licensure Board officially recommends that within the Summary Section (emphasis added) of the home inspection report, the home inspector identify the potential problem with Polybutylene plumbing pipe, (emphasis added) …and the home inspector recommends further investigation, even though the Polybutylene, … may not currently affect the habitability of the dwelling.”

Source: http://www.ncdoi.com/osfm/engineerin...ing_stucco.pdf and http://www.ncdoi.com/osfm/engineerin...lbbulletin.pdf



You continue to insist that the Summary Section is solely for listing items that need service or repair. You are incorrect. The exact definition in NC is: “the Summary Section indicate(s) that these systems or components do not function as intended, adversely affects the habitability of the dwelling, requires repair or subsequent observation, or warrants further investigation by a qualified specialist.”

ØThe tree needs monitoring. That meets the NC definition and I would be at risk of disciplinary action if I did not put it in the Summary.
ØThe guardrail baluster spacing is debatable. But I described my logic to you for putting it in the Summary when I was looking at your face and you didn’t have a problem then.
ØThe vents should be open. That meets the definition of “needs service”.
ØThe crawl space ventilation is restricted by the giant shrubs and they should be trimmed. That meets the definition of “needs service”.
ØGuardrails are needed on the stairs at the garage entry into the house. That meets the definition of “needs service”. Since you say you know what the building code from 1991 was when this house was built, please cite it for me because I do not and I am interested in that information.
ØThe AC coil needs to be elevated. That meets the definition of “needs service”.
ØThe toilet was loose and “needs service” so that meets the definition of “needs service”.
ØHome inspectors address GFCI in different ways. You now know mine.

You said, “I am also going to contact the home inspectors association for clarification on other items in your report that are listing as components and conditions needing service..”
Here is the contact information: NC Home Inspector Licensure Board, (name and phone number left out of this post).



Professionally speaking, I do not care one way or the other about whether the deal fell through. And your happiness or that of the seller’s is not a consideration for me. I make no representation to my clients (the buyers) as to whether or not they should purchase a home. That is totally their decision and they did so in this case without contacting me to ask any questions. It is not my duty to ensure the deal doesn’t fall through or even to look out for the best interests of the buyer. It is my duty to report accurately about the condition of the home at the time of the inspection. Unfortunately, this sometimes causes buyers to back out of the deal. I have no control over the condition of a home or over the thought processes of my clients.

Please consider the attached coupon as my attempt to make amends for your displeasure…



(photo of a $50.00 off coupon went here)


.

Dear Joe:
You said it all. In plain english which most sane people can hear, your report identified areas of concern. We, as a whole, only detect-discuss-direct our findings without fear or favour.
I personally add also that I neither debase nor glorify my findings but reported to the client for a fuller understanding of that system or component so inspected. If need be include best/worst case scenarios. Let them decide.
T.Neyedli
www.alphahomeinspections.ca