Flexible copper 1/2" gas line to water heater -- how big an issue?

[Michael Larson]

Like Jeff said: it's a gas appliance connector.

See link below:
http://www.polsteins.com/prod-0091814.html

[dchew]

You can purchase approved CSST flex gas line material in bulk. The key is that you must use a special swaging tool to properly install the end connectors to the gas line.

If a homeowner installed the end connector himself, I would have concerns about the long term reliability of that joint. He's going to have to prove to me that he followed the manufacturer's instructions for using this material properly.

BTW, we are seeing a lot of CSST being used in new construction and additions. Like PEX tubing, it saves the builders lots of labor time to install.

[Laura Line]

Dwight,
thanks for the link and that is it exactly, I did ask for a plumber to check the line to be sure it was installed correctly, but I know the listing agent was not happy at the time of inspection that I asked for it and figure that is one item I don't think he is going to enforce his owners to "take care of" even though the owners son, not a "licensed plumber", a handyman installed this unit.

how can WE be sure they used the correct swaging tool?

this is the first time that I have seen this line installed and when I questioned the one who installed the line, he did not seem to know a whole lot about that line itself.

thanks for your help

[dchew]

Your responsibility as a home inspector is to check the current condition of the house. When it comes to a gas line, the most you should do is to use a combustible gas detector and sniff for gas leaks. Anything above and beyond the SOP is putting additional liability on you.

If the gas line was recently installed, it should have been installed to the local building code requirements. One thing for sure you can put a bet on is that the building department does not like amateurs playing with gas lines. You could have noted that the gas line was recently replaced and that the buyer and his/her agent should make sure that the work was done with the proper building permits.

BTW, whatever the listing agents thinks about you is secondary. Your responsiblity is to your client. Yes, any agent can put the word out on the grapevine that you're a "deal breaker". Well, gas leaks or improper gas line connections are very important to the safety of your client. If the house blows up, you're going to be the first one they blame and you can guarantee that the agents will plead that you never told anyone of the problem.

[Laura Line]

Dwight

I understand and tell my clients I work for them even in front of the disgruntled listing agent, they don't really bother me, but this guy was pushing and pushing me, of course with being a female, I get challenged ALOT. I just wanted to cover myself with what I wrote, which I did.
The house was a 1964 it wasn't new construction and again I have not seen that type of connection used so better safe asking then being sorry. There is something to learn every day!

Thanks

[jlybolt]

Building permit to install a gas line??

[dchew]

Yep, in many cities, you need a permit to do a lot of improvements to your own home. Most of the times, it's a way to generate revenue for the city.

In the case of water heaters, gas lines, furnaces, I've seen too many cases of leaking gas lines and other dangerous installs. Some guys should never be allowed to buy a wrench, they're just all thumbs and do it wrong. They're not saving themselves any real money, just putting their familiies and home at risk.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jpope

You're correct Keith. It's the hydrogen sulfide (the chemical added to give an odor to natural gas).

Copper piping is allowed for gas piping in areas where the hydrogen sulfide levels are low enough (less than .3 grains per 100 cubic ft.), but this varies by the supplier. CPC 1210.1.1

Jeff

You are correct that the gas companies add the chemical to produce the rotten egg smell,but it's not hydrogen sulfide,hydrogen sulfide is found in natural gas in trace amounts,naturally,what they add is MERCAPTAN.

Mario

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by jlybolt

Building permit to install a gas line??

Santa Barbara, CA. requires building permits for just about everything. New appliances, new cabinets.....anything. If you change or add anything that is attached in any way to your house, they require a building permit.

We moved the main panel, with permit, and when the inspector was there to sign off, he noticed the old cabinets stacked in the garage and all hell broke loose. Permits ended up being around $1800 for everything we did. Had the windows blacked out but forgot to shut the garage door. DAMN expensive lesson.

[kmiller1]

Originally Posted by jlybolt

Building permit to install a gas line??

Where I live, Berkley MI, we are required to pull a permit to do any type of plumbing work, even if it is only replacing a garbage disposal. This is normal for most of the cities that I did re-mod work in before getting into inspections.

[tdutt]

The Tri-County Service Board in my area prints a flyer titled: Permits Protect The Safety and Value of Your Home. One of the key points of the flyer is to let homeowners know that insurance companies may not cover construction work that isn't permitted. If for example, an unpermitted deck collapses, homeowners may be liable for injuries and repairs. After reading this flyer I called my State Farm agent (who handles our homeowner's insurance) and asked her about this. My agent stated that they would definetly deny a claim where work that required permits was done without the permit or didn't pass inspection and resulted in injury or damage to the property. She told me that if a homeowner decided to add an electrical outlet without a permit, and it was later discovered that a fire resulted from the miswired outlet, the claim would be denied. When I tell my clients this, they have a new found respect and appreciation for complying with the process of getting the required permits and inspections.

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

Holy Cow! There's so much to learn. I should have been a lawyer or a doctor. Too late now.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by dchew

Anything above and beyond the SOP is putting additional liability on you.

Yes. And no. Possibly.

Especially since you are in California.

If A is the SOP, and B is above and beyond the SOP, and there are 150 home inspectors in your area, and 149 of them are doing B, and you are doing A, the courts will hold you to B, meaning that you lose.

That's why it is important to go to CREIA, ASHI, and/or NACHI dinner meetings, to learn what the competition is doing. It's also vitally important that you know what the other organizations' SOP's are.

This is for California only. Mileage in your state might be different.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by kmiller1

Where I live, Berkley MI, we are required to pull a permit to do any type of plumbing work, even if it is only replacing a garbage disposal. This is normal for most of the cities that I did re-mod work in before getting into inspections.

I've found the same in the states where I have done renovations, i.e., California, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, and Louisiana.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

They run copper pipe here to carry propane from the tank. Does it not have hydrogen sulfide?