Garbage dispoal plug

[JohnH515]

I inspected a manufactured home today and the garbage disposal operated by having the power cord come up through the counter top, then you would plug it in. I am calling this out as a defect. Am I correct? Also they had a double sink set-up, with 2 p-traps. Regardless of how they tie into the trap arm, I believe that is wrong. I am calling that out as a defect. Am I correct on that as well?

Thanks
John

[Jay Moge]

double trapping is usualy a no no, but it's hard to tell with out a pic. as for the disposal, it wouldn't be hard to replace the outlet with a switch or switch/outlet, theN snake a line in the wall and mount an outlet in the cupboard and have it run off the switch only. not a good idea to plug in any device that calling for power before you even plug it in, let alone a disposal. your hand will be wet from doing dishes, need to clear the disposal reach out to plug it in and......WAMMO.

[John Clayton]

Originally Posted by JohnH515

I inspected a manufactured home today and the garbage disposal operated by having the power cord come up through the counter top, then you would plug it in. I am calling this out as a defect. Am I correct?

Yep.

Originally Posted by JohnH515

Also they had a double sink set-up, with 2 p-traps. Regardless of how they tie into the trap arm, I believe that is wrong. I am calling that out as a defect. Am I correct on that as well?

Nope, well that is if the IRC is enforced in your area and also if the sizing of the drain where the two trap arms connect and if there is proper venting. A kitchen sink with two individually trapped bowls can have 1-1/2" traps and trap arms or fixture drains, however from where they connect together they should be 2" and that drain should then continue back to the wall where it must be properly vented (such as with a sanitary tee). Common vented fixtures may be vented at double pattern fittings where they connect together OR DOWNSTREAM but within the trap to vent limit.

Actually, all In-Sink-Erator brand garbage disposer you see sharing a trap with another sink compartment should be noted for improper installation. In-Sink-Erator installation instructions state to individually trap their disposers.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

John,

A) More than (1) P-Trap per fixture is incorrect and is most certainly a defect.

Reason: If a large volume of water is released down the drain it can carry with it enough pressure and force to pull the water right out of the traps.

Now.......it is fine to have lets say (2) combined fixtures share a trap if within a certain distance of it...like the old displosal and paired sink itself...and also (1) trap may serve up to 3 sinks.....provided the waste arms do not exceed 30 inches in length.

B.) As for the disposal- Well playing some effect into it may be that it is a manufactured home and the NEC has some views on that...but without going into a lot of detail yes you should call it out as well....

Normally the disposal circuit is dedicated and can be fixed with a cord and plug assembly...however, it is usually devised to a dedicated receptacle under the sink controlled by a switch above....either way being under the sink and dedicated it would be exempt from GFCI....and moving it to plug into the counter brings in ratings issues on the dedicated circuit requirement and other factors....not to mention if being a live running load....waiting to simply be plugged in.... as jay stated....wet hands...overgrab the plug..fingers touch the metal plug arms.....could be a WILD one...and chances are the countertops are not even GFCI protected anyway.......

Most certainly I would call both out.......one because it is totally wrong...and the other because it is potentially unsafe...either way protects you.

[JohnH515]

Thanks to all who answered. I called out both issues. My gut told me both are, at the very least, questionable.

John

[John Clayton]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

A) More than (1) P-Trap per fixture is incorrect and is most certainly a defect.

That is correct if there is only (1) waste outlet on that fixture. However when there is a multi-compartment sink there is more than (1) waste outlet and they are allowed to be individually trapped. The code prohibits double trapping which as you know is more than one trap in a series. The code does not require combination fixtures to be trapped with a single trap, instead it permits the combination fixture to be trapped with a single trap with exceptions.
Individually trapped sink compartments are perfectly legal and required in certain situations as long as they are properly vented, whether that be by individual vents or common venting or....
Common venting allows more than one trap or trapped fixture to connect with a verticle or horizontal drain before or at the vent connection.

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Reason: If a large volume of water is released down the drain it can carry with it enough pressure and force to pull the water right out of the traps.

Very true, only if it is not properly vented.

[gporter]

John are you the guy from ESPN

[Paul W. Abernathy]

That is not what was asked...Yes. each can have its own trap.....you cant have (2) traps to one sink per say...that is what i was speaking of.

Also there i a difference in being incorrect and illegal...I did not use the term illegal...

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Also there i a difference in being incorrect and illegal...I did not use the term illegal...

But isn't it illegal to violate codes by doing something incorrectly if those codes have been adopted by the jurisdiction?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

ahh......Illegal........versus Violation.....hmmm.....I try to stay away from defining those two together...

I would guess it is a violation until reported and caught...then illegal...

I hardly think you will DO TIME....from a violation....more than likely fined for the violation.....hmmm...never really thought of it as illegal...lol....

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Also.....way to much typing to go into ALL the exceptions and allowances for distances and so on........I would have to advice buy a Code Check if the poster wants EVERY requirement on it.

I only listed a synopsis....

Actually sounds like the poster knew the ruling beforehand...OH WAIT...wrong John...thehehe.......dang I hate that...lol

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

John,

A) More than (1) P-Trap per fixture is incorrect and is most certainly a defect.

Reason: If a large volume of water is released down the drain it can carry with it enough pressure and force to pull the water right out of the traps.

Now.......it is fine to have lets say (2) combined fixtures share a trap if within a certain distance of it...like the old displosal and paired sink itself...and also (1) trap may serve up to 3 sinks.....provided the waste arms do not exceed 30 inches in length.

Actually....I thought the quote above explained it rather well if you ask me...lol....sure you can have a P Trap per fixture.....but not more than one per device....and you can share a P trap in double sinks ( some distance issued to apply ).....but basically I though it was a rather nice explanation...lol

[JohnH515]

Wow! I never thought this thread would get this much acton. It is true that I kinda knew that the double trap was wrong. The sink trap tied into the waste arm of the disposal trap. Since the sink trap did not direcetly enter the disposal trap, I thought there would be some kind of exception. While on the inspection, I mentioned the issue with the buyer, and said that she may need a plumber to re-work the drains (she said she wanted to get rid of the disposal.) I really dont care much whether its code or not, just trying to avoid that call later on, when she gets a plumber who bad mouths me for not reporting on the trap issue. I went with "may be incorrect installation" and explained what are downsides to double trapping and said "if these problems arise, a qualified plumber may be needed to correct". I hopefully educated my client, while protecting my butt. I have only done about 12 inspections on my own, and I'm still a little nervous. Hence my post. I belong to my local NACHI chapter, and once I recoup a little more of my business investment, I will be joining National. This message board is the GREATEST!

P.S - I am not from ESPN

Thanks again to all

John