Government mandate to thin the walls to save $10

Specific Inspection Topics Plumbing Inspections
1

We have an expert tell us that in 2004 all water heater tanks were required to have their walls of the heat exchanger and the glass lined rolled metal tank itself thinned. By NAECA Standard in 2004. National Appliance Energy Conservation Act.

By government mandate, the manufacturer’s thinned the walls of the heat exchanger tubes of their water heater tanks in order to gain efficiency. Because the water heater tank is the most inefficient appliance in the home (out of all appliances).

Now when you go an purchase a water heater tank that was made 2004 or after, the life expectancy is only 3 to 5 years.

The manufacturers thinned the walls to gain only** one and one-half percent **(1 1/2%) efficiency gain, to save about only $10 per year.

Did you know that? Go here and learn http://www.nachi.tv/episode49 It’s not just about “tankless”…

2

Of course the newer, thinner-walled tanks will need to be replaced more often than than the old ones.

The cost in energy to produce the materials, manufacture, distribute and install all the additional water heaters and all their components which will be needed will blow that 1 1/2% right out of the water!

How much do you suppose it cost industry associations in lobbyist money to get that bill passed? Not as much money as will be made by those engaged in the businesses mentioned in the paragraph above.

3

Narrative:
Hot Water Tank Life Expectancy:

“The water heater tank was manufactured after 2004, and therefore it’s life expectancy is only 3 to 5 years. It’s 2008, cross your fingers.”

4

But is it true. Does anyone have documentation to back up the experts claim. It must be in writing somewhere if it’s true. Sounds illogical.

5

We were told this by a tankless water heater contractor. I haven’t chased down the actual information. I’ll try to find the actual legislation.

6

Does anyone have information to the best way to hint to the prospective homeowner to make sure the insurance covers the possible extent of a water heater bursting shortly after you leave for the day and don’t return till late or go on vacation. also does anyone have any knowledge of a device similar to the flood prevention hose’s for other appliance’s.Thanks

7

Flood Stop

8

Thank you, you are a wealth of knowledge. And to think of all of the things they say about you here. Thanks again

9

And you put this in a training film?

10

Thanks for the information. I found the Rennai (sp?) information very valuable, especially the recommendation for yearly maintenance by an HVAC person. I never would have known that…
Thanks for very informative training, definately appreciated.:smiley:

…but I’m just a little skeptical that people will be replacing water heaters every 3 - 5 years.

I mentioned this to our plumber dude (guy in our BNI group), and he looked at me like I was crazy…He says he certainly doesn’t tell people that. :frowning:

They are an often overlooked item in the utility area, and the new ones I’ve seen in the local box stores all have anywhere from 8, 9 and 12 years and even 15 year warranties on them,
and so we think people are going to throw them out before then?
I doubt it. :shock:

I’d like to see those tidbits in writing.

11

We used to have an Education Committee that would review things before they went out.

I cannot believe that NACHI would publish something as fact in a training film for home inspectors that contained such radical information based on hearsay.

12

It’s disappointing that more fact checking isn’t done before releasing information contained in training videos.
Training videos should be held to a higher standard than this MB for instance. “Facts” can be disputed on the board and corrections made. The videos will be considered definitive by a trainee and to have false or misleading information in them could set up a HI up for embarrassment at least and potential lawsuits at worst.

I found his information from the Department of Energy on the efficiency requirement for water heaters and development of Energy star Ratings for them**. **I have included the letter not to issue energystar standards in 2004 and a link to the continuing development of an EnergyStar standard for water heaters.

As I understand it, Manufacturers do not have to produce EnergyStar rated appliances. It is a government sponsored program to develop appliance standards in cooperation with manufactures to give consumers more information with which to make a decision when they purchase appliances with regard to cost of operation.

I cannot imagine manufactures reducing the lifecycle of their product just to get the EnergyStar rating as they would be destryoing their reputaion in the process. But who knows for sure.

About EnergyStar

**Water Heater Criteria Development(includes timeline of standard development)
**
**Department of Energy **
Washington, DC

January 6, 2004](http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=new_specs.water_heaters)(link to complete letter)

Over the past year, the Department of Energy has investigated whether it would be feasible to
establish ENERGY STAR criteria for domestic water heaters. In April 2003, we issued a report
on the options available to the Department, including the labeling of “conventional” (gas and
electric tanked technologies) or, alternatively, pursuing the option of labeling any or all of the
“non-conventional” technologies (solar, tankless, gas condensing and heat pump water heaters).
After analyzing the market, the potential energy savings and economics of the various
technologies, and considering feedback from stakeholders, **the Department of Energy has
decided not to establish ENERGY STAR criteria for domestic water heaters at this time.

Release of EnergyStar program requirements letter for water heaters

April 1, 2008

**Dear ENERGY STAR® Partners and Stakeholders:

The Department of Energy (DOE) is pleased to issue the enclosed final program requirements for ENERGY STAR Residential Water Heaters.
We appreciate the time and effort you have contributed. Your comments were evaluated and accounted for throughout the decision-making process. We look forward to working with you as we implement the new criteria.

DOE is including residential high-efficiency gas storage water heaters in the program at a minimum Energy Factor of 0.62. However, DOE will sunset this minimum level on August 31, 2010, requiring a minimum Energy Factor of 0.67 thereon for gas storage models. It is our intent to accelerate the provision of high-performance gas storage water heaters in the market by establishing a goal for manufacturers to meet.

DOE is including residential whole-home gas tankless water heaters at a minimum Energy Factor of 0.82. DOE reduced the minimum gallons-per-minute (gpm) requirement from 3.0 in the previous draft criteria to 2.5 gpm at a 77°F rise. This will allow qualified units to be compatible with the hot water demand of apartments and condominium occupants while not penalizing whole home applications.

DOE is including residential gas condensing water heaters with a minimum Energy Factor of 0.80, residential drop-in or integrated heat pump water heaters with the minimum Energy Factor set at 2.0, and residential solar water heaters in the program, requiring a minimum Solar Fraction of 0.50.

13

There was a day when NACHI had an Executive Director, President, and a variety of committees that kept things going, proactively, for the benefit of improving the skills and addressing concerns of home inspectors.

Nick played his usual role as P.T. Barnum hyping all of the trinkets that he could find to attract more members…while real, honest to goodness home inspection association business took place apart from his Medicine Wagon.

Today…all that is left is the hyperbole with no substance. The idea behind these videos is to sell them. Period.

14

As I thought. *(http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/downloads/ES_energystar_CUSTOMERFAQs.pdf)
It is not a mandatory program it is a voluntary standard.

Q . What is ENERGY STAR?
A . An officially recognized way for you to save money through energy efficiency and help the
environment without sacrificing performance.

**ENERGY STAR is a voluntary program for energy efficiency that is set by two United States
Government organizations; the Department of Energy and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
The standard was conceived in the USA but is recognized in Australia and Canada, and also by the
European Union. **

ENERGY STAR is not just for computers, it covers many different aspects of energy
conservation for the home and office, ranging from hardware like printers, monitors, DVDs, and
copiers to building standards and tips for energy efficiency. Their hardware standards help eliminate
wasted energy through special energy-efficient designs, using less energy to perform many typical tasks
and, when not in use, conserving energy by entering low-power states.
New ENERGY STAR standards will be introduced in July 2007 that raise the bar for energy
conservation and promise significant energy savings. The new requirements are intended to ensure that
the ENERGY STAR logo displayed on compliant systems will represent the most energy-efficient
products. ENERGY STAR 4.0 qualified office and imaging products use 30-75% less electricity than
standard equipment, which will lower utility costs. The EPA estimates that over the next five years,
ENERGY STAR 4.0 compliant products will save Americans almost $5 billion dollars.

The ENERGY STAR program for computers has the goal of generating awareness of energy saving
capabilities, as well as differentiating the market for more energy-efficient computers and accelerating
the market penetration of more energy-efficient technologies. Energy savings for computers are
significant. The EPA has examined how different computers are used (consumer, notebook, or
workstations), as well as their component requirements with attendant energy signatures, to develop a
specification that they believe will reduce greenhouse gas emissions from energy production,
equivalent to about 7 million cars.

An individual workstation that has features that help make it eligible for ENERGY STAR 4.0 compliancy
can save significant amounts of money in energy costs, depending on whether you previously used
energy saving low-power states or not.*

15

Looks like our uncredentialed “educators” got snookered by a tankless water heater salesman.

16

Shortest manufacturers lifecycle for water heaters I have ever seen was 6 years.

I inform clients that manufacturer’s life is in that range.

4 years?

Gotta be kidding me…

17

So WHO decided to put “unverified” competing product manufacturer “expert” information in a training video without verifying it AND talking to the other side of the fence for THEIR view of it.

Please somebody who knows, say it ain’t so!

18

http://www.nachi.org/tanklessshow.htm isn’t our course. It isn’t a course at all. No course material, no quizzes, no exams, no certification, no approvals.

It is an onsite TV interview with a person in the industry for our TV show.

Interviews are just that, we ask OUR questions of guests and they give *THEIR *answers.

There is much that guests, even expert guests, have said or claimed on www.nachi.tv that I disagree with or that might become outdated over time. They don’t know the questions we are going to ask them and they have a camera pointed at their face. Such is TV.

We try to be very forthright about each guest’s background and if they represent a product manufacturer or service company.

–

19

I see. The lack of a quiz makes it okay to put out incorrect information.

You have obviously forgotten how you have referenced these 40 “free” courses as NACHI’s contribution to the inspectors in licensed states on other threads.

20

Nope. Here is the list of state approved courses: www.nachi.org/education.htm The number of sections, quizzes, exams, and approved CE hours is in the left column.

I seriously doubt that a state is going to approve watching a product rep’s TV interview as CE for licensing purposes. Good luck with that one though.