Government mandate to thin the walls to save $10

[Joe Farsetta]

Shortest manufacturers lifecycle for water heaters I have ever seen was 6 years.

I inform clients that manufacturer's life is in that range.

4 years?

Gotta be kidding me...

[Erby Crofutt]

So WHO decided to put "unverified" competing product manufacturer "expert" information in a training video without verifying it AND talking to the other side of the fence for THEIR view of it.

Please somebody who knows, say it ain't so!

[Nick Gromicko]

http://www.nachi.org/tanklessshow.htm isn't our course. It isn't a course at all. No course material, no quizzes, no exams, no certification, no approvals.

It is an onsite TV interview with a person in the industry for our TV show.

Interviews are just that, we ask OUR questions of guests and they give THEIR answers.

There is much that guests, even expert guests, have said or claimed on www.nachi.tv that I disagree with or that might become outdated over time. They don't know the questions we are going to ask them and they have a camera pointed at their face. Such is TV.

We try to be very forthright about each guest's background and if they represent a product manufacturer or service company.

--

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gromicko

http://www.nachi.org/tanklessshow.htm isn't our course. It isn't a course at all. No course material, no quizzes, no exams, no certification, no approvals.

It is an onsite TV interview with a person in the industry for our TV show.

Interviews are just that, we ask OUR questions of guests and they give THEIR answers.

There is much that guests, even expert guests, have said or claimed on www.nachi.tv that I disagree with or that might become outdated over time. Such is TV.

--

I see. The lack of a quiz makes it okay to put out incorrect information.

You have obviously forgotten how you have referenced these 40 "free" courses as NACHI's contribution to the inspectors in licensed states on other threads.

[Nick Gromicko]

Nope. Here is the list of state approved courses: www.nachi.org/education.htm The number of sections, quizzes, exams, and approved CE hours is in the left column.

I seriously doubt that a state is going to approve watching a product rep's TV interview as CE for licensing purposes. Good luck with that one though.

[Nick Gromicko]

Anyway, the government has a funny way of making voluntary programs as good as mandatory. For instance, there are many stores that now refuse to sell anything other than Energy Star rated appliances and water heaters.

Wanna know why there are new speed limit signs across Wyoming? Feds threatened to cut off federal transportaion funding unless Wyoming voluntarily...

[Russell J. Hensel]

OK. I see where Ben was wrong. But damn people, let him know his mistake and insure he learns from it. So he took a persons word at something and got burned. Who in life hasn't. I am sure he has learned his lesson and consider remoiving the video and the person who has provided the information (Tankless water heater guy) needs to be banished from the organization. Beating a dead horse does no one any good. I am sure Nick and Ben see this area and will act according and responsibily. At least I hope so

I my humble opinion.....

[Joe Farsetta]

Agreed.

But, Kenton and Ben did supply a brief narrative relating to water heaters older than 4 years, I believe.

GE sells thousands upon thousands of water heaters through Home Depot. The lowest limited manufacturers warranty they provide is 6 years. There's a reason for this.

Now, GE doesnt actually MANUFACTURE the unit, nor for that matter does Sears (Kenmore).

BUT... the warranties are quite similar.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

We have an expert tell us that in 2004 all water heater tanks were required to have their walls of the heat exchanger and the glass lined rolled metal tank itself thinned. By NAECA Standard in 2004. National Appliance Energy Conservation Act. Did you know that?

That's what the Rinnai expert said on the show. Kenton and I thought that was really amazing information. I didn't research everything that he said. It's a show. It's not a training video. Although I learned a lot.

The expert says that there are 300 burners that are individually controlled inside the Rinnai heat exchanger. I think that statement is amazing. I didn't research everything that he said. It's a show. It's not a training video. Although I learned a lot.

The expert says that the Rinnai water heater can last 25 years without any major failures if serviced every year. I think that statement is amazing. I didn't research what he said. It's a show. Although I learned a lot.

I learned from a renowned expert that the best practice to disinfect a faucet is to use a flame. I think that statement is amazing. I didn't research everything that he said. It's was a show. Although I learned a lot.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

...Dear ENERGY STAR® Partners and Stakeholders:

The Department of Energy (DOE) is pleased to issue the enclosed final program requirements for ENERGY STAR Residential Water Heaters.
....

I'm not sure that Engergy Star and the NAECA standards are the same. The NAECA standards are in relation to those yellow tags on the side of every appliance. The Energy Star is something else, right?

[Michael Larson]

OK OK

It's not a training video. I get it. My apologies for calling it one.

Now to your promotional post that started this thread.

Originally Posted by bgromicko

We have an expert tell us that in 2004 all water heater tanks were required to have their walls of the heat exchanger and the glass lined rolled metal tank itself thinned. By NAECA Standard in 2004. National Appliance Energy Conservation Act.

By government mandate, the manufacturer's thinned the walls of the heat exchanger tubes of their water heater tanks in order to gain efficiency. Because the water heater tank is the most inefficient appliance in the home (out of all appliances).

Now when you go an purchase a water heater tank that was made 2004 or after, the life expectancy is only 3 to 5 years.

The manufacturers thinned the walls to gain only one and one-half percent (1 1/2%) efficiency gain, to save about only $10 per year.

Did you know that? Go here and learn http://www.nachi.tv/episode49 It's not just about "tankless"...

It contains factual errors. Agreed?

This board acts as "the brains of NACHI" (Nick said that)

So when a statement gets challenged don't blame the "expert".

An interviewer should have challenged some of these "facts" while filming or in post production so a better product could be produced.

JMHO

All of us want truthful information in the end to serve our clients better.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

OK OK

It's not a training video. I get it. My apologies for calling it one.

Now to your promotional post that started this thread.

It contains factual errors. Agreed?

This board acts as "the brains of NACHI" (Nick said that)

So when a statement gets challenged don't blame the "expert".

An interviewer should have challenged some of these "facts" while filming or in post production so a better product could be produced.

JMHO

All of us want truthful information in the end to serve our clients better.

I agree. Can you help me? I would love to have you as an impartial reviewer of videos that may be mistakenly considered as an education/training video. Are you available to view videos, prior to me putting them up online.

I get a lot of sh*t from guys who think that we're perfect over here in NACHI.TV land, but I'm not. I'm a family guy, 3 kids all under 6, I work about 80 hours a week, mostly up till 1 or 2 am in the morning (check the messag board - I'm probably on), and I'm just doing my best to provide InterNACHI members a superior product at an affordable price. And I highly value thoughtful, pro-active criticism (any donkey can bray loud ) And when I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Are you available, Mike?

p.s. I'm not implying that you or anyone else on the message board is a donkey. xoxo

[Michael Larson]

Ben, I would be glad to help out.

I suggest several act as reviewers.

A one person reviewer is going to miss things.

There is a lot of talent among the posters on this board.

Let's use them if they are willing.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Speaking of checking the facts... We're just about to put up another free online course for InterNACHI. Wood-destroying Organisms. This will be a training course. There's been months of research and collaboration between Department of Agriculture of Ohio and Arkansas, the EPA, University of Ohio and University of Arkansas, and NACHI.TV. There's an enormous effort towards accuracy in this upcoming course. It's not going to be just a show on TV.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Ben, I would be glad to help out.

I suggest several act as reviewers.

A one person reviewer is going to miss things.

There is a lot of talent among the posters on this board.

Let's use them if they are willing.

Thanks. I'll call you this week sometime if that's okay.