Look what I found today...

[James H. Bushart]

With the owner present and giving permission your scenario is totally different than what was presented in the first and subsequent posts. Just out of curiosity, why didn't you flip the breaker and drain the unit?

[Bob Elliott]

Lowering the valve is not that bad.
I would notate it however and try to get word to the property owner.
Just keep a good record of things you do and why.

[Russell J. Hensel]

Wait a minute. What about the temp guns. Aren't those beyond the "SOP"?

Michael - Seeing I have no vested interest in your company. I for one will not impose my self righteous beliefs on you. Since YOU own YOUR company, you did as you saw was right and applicable.

With people writing up "possible" scenarios lets go this way.

Your find the exact problem and do nothing but write it up. Seller and listing agent are NOT present. Takes you 24 hours to write the report. How is the seller to know the findings of the report unless the buyer provides it. You are not to give this information without expressed written consent from the buyer.

Sellers 5 year old takes a bath and accidentally gets scalded to 90% of his body and gets 2nd and 3rd degree burns all over his body and must live a life of physical and emotional agony. Well, this COULD happen just like the water line could burst.

So now instead of a judge go in front of that child and tell them sorry you are physically scarred for life and will probably not lead a normal life, because you didn't want to go outside your every so perfect SOP.

Make believe scenarios work both ways.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Michael -

On 2 element electric water heaters the top element fires 1st. When satisfied it switches to the lower element. The lower element then takes over and its feasible the top element might not come on again for a month or??

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by rhensel

Wait a minute. What about the temp guns. Aren't those beyond the "SOP"?

Michael - Seeing I have no vested interest in your company. I for one will not impose my self righteous beliefs on you. Since YOU own YOUR company, you did as you saw was right and applicable.

With people writing up "possible" scenarios lets go this way.

Your find the exact problem and do nothing but write it up. Seller and listing agent are NOT present. Takes you 24 hours to write the report. How is the seller to know the findings of the report unless the buyer provides it. You are not to give this information without expressed written consent from the buyer.

Sellers 5 year old takes a bath and accidentally gets scalded to 90% of his body and gets 2nd and 3rd degree burns all over his body and must live a life of physical and emotional agony. Well, this COULD happen just like the water line could burst.

So now instead of a judge go in front of that child and tell them sorry you are physically scarred for life and will probably not lead a normal life, because you didn't want to go outside your every so perfect SOP.

Make believe scenarios work both ways.

Perhaps you would like to explain how a five year old takes a bath in a home that has been winterized. (This should be good.)

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009...eater-safe.php
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by Lloyd Alter, Toronto on 03.10.09

Food & Health





Almost every checklist of energy-saving tips includes the recommendation that you turn the temperature of your water heater down from 140°F (60°C) to 120°F(49°C), including on TreeHugger and Planet Green. Yet up in Canada if you look for recommendations, they will tell you not to set your heater below 140F, as it can become a sort of petri dish for Legionnaires Disease. When I mentioned this in a comment on an earlier post, commenters went a bit crazy on me, so I thought it would merit a closer look.


Legionnaires Disease, or Legeionellosis, is caused by "Legionella pneumophila, a ubiquitous aquatic organism that thrives in warm environments." It was identified after 34 veterans died after attending an American Legion Convention in the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia in 1976. It is temperature sensitive:

* 70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
* At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
* At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
* At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
* Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
* 35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
* 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
* Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant

Because of this, quite a few Canadian sources make the following recommendations.



Hydro Quebec, (admittedly an electric utility)

To reduce the risk of burns from hot tap water, the temperature setting on the water heater can be turned down. But if the temperature is set too low, bacteria may begin to grow in the tank. Even at 60 °C – the setting on most electric water heaters – an estimated 25% of all water heaters are contaminated by legionella bacteria.
Legionella bacteria tend to grow in the lower temperatures at the bottom of water heater; such bacteria can cause a form of pneumonia. The organism is generally transmitted when people inhale contaminated water droplets from whirlpool baths, showers or building air conditioning systems. In Québec, about 100 people a year are hospitalized for pneumonia caused by contaminated residential water heaters.
In light of the statistics, it is not advisable to lower the water heater temperature to, say, 49° C. This would not only reduce the hot water supply by some 20%, it would also put your household at risk of contracting pneumonia.

The Canada Safety Council:

In 2000, the Walkerton disaster had sent a wake-up call about the safety of Canada’s drinking water. While standards for domestic hot water must consider scald prevention, they must also address the broad spectrum of public health and safety issues. To minimize bacteria contamination, water must be stored at 60 C or higher. For example, temperatures under 50 C may increase the risk of Legionnaires’ disease, a form of pneumonia, due to bacterial growth in the tank. That disease is caused by Legionella bacteria, which live in water. Temperature is a critical factor for Legionella to grow. The risk of colonization in hot water tanks is significant between 40 and 50 C.
Legionella bacteria most often enter the lungs due to aspiration. (Aspiration means choking such that secretions in the mouth bypass the choking reflexes and enter the lung.) Drinking contaminated water is not a major cause of Legionnaire’s disease.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates 8,000 to 18,000 Americans contract the disease annually. Five to 30 percent of the cases are fatal. While Canada has no national statistics, Hydro-Québec says about 100 people a year are hospitalized in that province for pneumonia caused by contaminated residential water heaters

[Russell J. Hensel]

Originally Posted by mroberson

Recently de-winterized house, 47 gallon electric water heater. Does it come as any surprise that the TPR was dripping water? Needless to say, I shut it off QUICKLY.

OK, who said anything about the house being winterized? Sounds to me the INSPECTOR had nothing to do with the winterization nor the de-winterization. So in fact the inspector had nothing to do with those conditions at all and the house was NOT winterized.

To mix up and tangle facts to make a stretch the story out to make a hypothetical case that POSSIBLE COULD happen in order to make others see a view, is well...different.

The way you put ideas out there is..well you should not run bath water. What if the shower had a hole in the drain behind the wall and the water got into the wall (Why did you turn the water handle on, it was off when you got there). Then a person with severe mold allergies moved in and the mold behind the wall made her have an asthma attack, when trying to get help she slipped on the floor and fell down the stairs and hit her head and dies...

Sticking to the facts should be point #1 and coming up with hypothetical cases can go on and on and on. If you want ZERO liability then you can never own a company. It is that simple.

[Michael Larson]

Sticking to the facts should be point #1 and coming up with hypothetical cases can go on and on and on. If you want ZERO liability then you can never own a company. It is that simple.

Someone call somebody. We agree.

[James H. Bushart]

Interesting article, Roy. I wonder how many inspectors will, now, be running around the world turning UP the heat on the water heaters they inspect in order to save lives. LOL

[agallatin]

Originally Posted by rcooke

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009...eater-safe.php
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by Lloyd Alter, Toronto on 03.10.09

Food & Health





Almost every checklist of energy-saving tips includes the recommendation that you turn the temperature of your water heater down from 140°F (60°C) to 120°F(49°C), including on TreeHugger and Planet Green. Yet up in Canada if you look for recommendations, they will tell you not to set your heater below 140F, as it can become a sort of petri dish for Legionnaires Disease. When I mentioned this in a comment on an earlier post, commenters went a bit crazy on me, so I thought it would merit a closer look.


Legionnaires Disease, or Legeionellosis, is caused by "Legionella pneumophila, a ubiquitous aquatic organism that thrives in warm environments." It was identified after 34 veterans died after attending an American Legion Convention in the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia in 1976. It is temperature sensitive:

* 70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
* At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
* At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
* At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
* Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
* 35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
* 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
* Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant

Because of this, quite a few Canadian sources make the following recommendations.



Hydro Quebec, (admittedly an electric utility)

To reduce the risk of burns from hot tap water, the temperature setting on the water heater can be turned down. But if the temperature is set too low, bacteria may begin to grow in the tank. Even at 60 °C – the setting on most electric water heaters – an estimated 25% of all water heaters are contaminated by legionella bacteria.
Legionella bacteria tend to grow in the lower temperatures at the bottom of water heater; such bacteria can cause a form of pneumonia. The organism is generally transmitted when people inhale contaminated water droplets from whirlpool baths, showers or building air conditioning systems. In Québec, about 100 people a year are hospitalized for pneumonia caused by contaminated residential water heaters.
In light of the statistics, it is not advisable to lower the water heater temperature to, say, 49° C. This would not only reduce the hot water supply by some 20%, it would also put your household at risk of contracting pneumonia.

The Canada Safety Council:

In 2000, the Walkerton disaster had sent a wake-up call about the safety of Canada’s drinking water. While standards for domestic hot water must consider scald prevention, they must also address the broad spectrum of public health and safety issues. To minimize bacteria contamination, water must be stored at 60 C or higher. For example, temperatures under 50 C may increase the risk of Legionnaires’ disease, a form of pneumonia, due to bacterial growth in the tank. That disease is caused by Legionella bacteria, which live in water. Temperature is a critical factor for Legionella to grow. The risk of colonization in hot water tanks is significant between 40 and 50 C.
Legionella bacteria most often enter the lungs due to aspiration. (Aspiration means choking such that secretions in the mouth bypass the choking reflexes and enter the lung.) Drinking contaminated water is not a major cause of Legionnaire’s disease.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates 8,000 to 18,000 Americans contract the disease annually. Five to 30 percent of the cases are fatal. While Canada has no national statistics, Hydro-Québec says about 100 people a year are hospitalized in that province for pneumonia caused by contaminated residential water heaters

Good one Roy ! I happen to run my water heater at 140. I don't see why not , I have to heat my house anyway . I can use less hot water with a higher temp. setting . Fail to see where there would be much difference .