P-trap, S-trap disagreement.

[Thomas H. Dietrich]

Hi Team,

I called out an 's-trap' and the builders plumber re-looked at it. Said it's actually a p-trap, because the vent is within 5 feet of the weir. I haven't responded to the client, but the 5 foot rule is a venting rule, and has nothing to do with defining if something is an s or p. Can you help, I might be messed up.

From email: "he insisted that what he's installed is in fact 'P' shaped plumbing"

A B C ..... P . . S ....... trap?

Thx,

tom

[Gerry Beaumont]

Hi Tom,

this came up a couple of years ago, try this thread

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/s-tra...76/index2.html

Regards

Gerry

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

Looks to me like that configuration is fine. I have always been taught that if there is 4 or more inches between the upper bends that it will not create a self siphoning effect if the line is vented. he may be right by calling it a "P" trap depending on the measurement of that top bend to where it discharges into the vertical line.

I would still mention it in the report.

[Robert E. Elliott]

Here is another link

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/s-trap-p-trap-1976/

[James F. McKee]

Tom...I'd have had some issues with just picture 1 but I think picture 2 clearly shows that this is a p trap...jmho....jim

[Thomas H. Dietrich]

Disclaimer: We are not code inspectors, whoever expectations of builders of modern homes are expected to meet certain standards. Here in Pa, we have a UCC system which adopted the IBC/IRC standards. This house was built in 2007.

IRC P3201.5 Prohibited trap designs.

P3201.5.3 "S" traps.

There are no exceptions.

thx for your feedbacks.

tom

PS client complained of constant sewer smell from sinks.

[Mark Thorman]

I'm with Tom. I call this out as an s-trap.

www.mauihomeinspections.com

[Mark Jones]

Looks like a p-trap to me. The horizontal section of pipe appears to be twice the pipe Dia.
PS. I hate those cheap plastic fittings.

Mark

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

It's not an "S" trap. It's a "P" trap with a vertical leg, but without additional access, you can't say for sure that it's proper.

To be a proper "vertical leg waste fixture drain," you would need verify the size of the pipes and fittings up to the vent. The pipe size is required to increase at each bend after the first trap-arm.

[Robert E. Elliott]

Originally Posted by mjones6

Looks like a p-trap to me. The horizontal section of pipe appears to be twice the pipe Dia.
PS. I hate those cheap plastic fittings.

Mark

PVC is much better for traps than stainless.

Stainless steel traps rust out every couple years or so.

[Thomas H. Dietrich]

Originally Posted by jpope

"vertical leg waste fixture drain,"

Can you help me here, I've looked this up, but it seems deleted from the current IRC. What section is this in? IRC 2006?

thx,

tom

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

2003 IRC P3105.3

It appears to have been removed from the 2006 IRC.

[Thomas H. Dietrich]

Originally Posted by jpope

2003 IRC P3105.3

It appears to have been removed from the 2006 IRC.

Well 2006 is what is in effect here (plus seems hard core against s traps), and the home was built last year. So guessing under current standards, this is not allowed.

tom

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

My point is that it is not an "S" trap - regardless of which code cycle you reference.

If you believe that the vertical leg is no longer allowed based on your code cycle, that would be a stronger argument.

Here is that reference from the 2006 IRC (bold is mine). . .

P3105.2 Fixture drains.

The total fall in a fixture drain resulting from pipe slope shall not exceed one pipe diameter, nor shall the vent pipe connection to a fixture drain, except for water closets, be below the weir of the trap.

[Mark Thorman]

Was this ever allowed under the UPC. My area is still working off the 91 UPC. It appears that the IRC allowed it for two cycles. If it had not been allowed during those cycles would it then have been considered an s-trap or just a p-trap that is not properly vented.