Total galvanic reaction?

[Joseph Tribuzio]

OK, is it common for a whole copper piping system to suffer galvanic reaction corrosion??? (I did not think so unless there were 2 touch points...)

Or is it mostly centralized in the location of the two touching dissimilar metals??

The agent suggests galvanic reaction all the way

I think the home wasn't winterized correctly and there was freezing in pipes.

From the pictures, to me i t looks like freezing in pipes, because the water was not blown out.
(why isnt there regulation on who can winterize a home?)

[Bob Elliott]

Joe that is just leakage.

I would guess that the faucet already had issues and that the rest is expansion ,from the thaw and freeze cycles.

From the pics it is safe to assume that the water is off right now ,but there will be tons of leak points when the main is put back in use.

Advise your client to have all the valves and shutoffs in the on position during the process of restoration ,so there is less slamming and no clogging issues.

Plumber should be on standby.

[Joseph Tribuzio]

Thanks Bob,
Yes... clearly these pictures show leaking, i know that.

Like i said, I do believe it was from freezing, ( meaning freeze thaw cycle)

The home is "wintertized" but im not sure how and by whom.
I already advised that a plumber be on hand when the home is
"de- winterized" - but as you can see, many of the valves are so corroded that i wouldn't recommend anything other than replacement.

The question IS: Can GALVANIC REACTION/ CORROSION occur over a large span ( or all) of a piping system?

Has anyone experienced this?

[Bob Elliott]

No ,it just occurs where two dissimilar metals meet.

The brass to copper is not usually a problem,since they seem to be more compatible.(Chicago area)

I did not notice the galv elbow till now ,in one of your pics.
That needs a dielectric fitting or in this case a replacement would be easier and more practical.

I had a chart I was looking at in wiki that was pretty good last month explaining a lot of it.

Back in the day ,I would antique my metal pieces ,by exploiting that effect.

[Joseph Tribuzio]

Actually, its all copper believe it or not, but that is just a coating of corrosion on a copper elbow.

[Joseph Tribuzio]

WAIT. now what if the grounding strap from the electrical distribution panel was a few feet from box but really far from the point of water service in and THEREFORE grounding point.

Would it be safe to assume that there could be electrolysis of all piping from electrical grounding to actual pipe service in?

Also looking at picture, it seems like some even coating of corrosion at certain areas. Not just random leak corrosion, but a uniform change.

I'm starting to wonder if there could be some king of galvanic reaction 'circuit' formed.
Maybe something hidden in walls?

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jtribuzio

WAIT. now what if the grounding strap from the electrical distribution panel was a few feet from box but really far from the point of water service in and THEREFORE grounding point.

Would it be safe to assume that there could be electrolysis of all piping from electrical grounding to actual pipe service in?

Also looking at picture, it seems like some even coating of corrosion at certain areas. Not just random leak corrosion, but a uniform change.

I'm starting to wonder if there could be some king of galvanic reaction 'circuit' formed.
Maybe something hidden in walls?

Joe,You may be over thinking it.

[Joseph Tribuzio]

YEAH maybe i am,
found this on a plumber site
"Electrolosys is an electrochemical reaction that takes place at a molecular level solely at the point of contact between two dissimilar metals. It does not generate a current through the pipe and it has absolutely nothing to do with any stray electric current that might be flowing through the piping."

[Bob Elliott]

The Brass/copper causes some ,but not much.
if this is just for a report on a foreclosure it is easy to overthink the stuff not turned on ,so I avoid that as much as possible.
True I understand the looking for clues thing,but in this case the whole game is going to change once water is restored.

I had the same situation on Saturday, and will go back to look once it is restored.

[Joseph Tribuzio]

That is the thing though - what a big question mark in the mean time.

Who knows whats going on in the walls until water is restored.

You know, i wish ALL WINTERIZATION PROCEDURES WERE PROPERLY AND COMPLETELY FOLLOWED, by some kind of regulated professional.

Then we could have a modicum of a reasonable expectation that
AT LEAST it was not an improper " winterization" that caused problems in an otherwise working plumbing system.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jtribuzio

That is the thing though - what a big question mark in the mean time.

Who knows whats going on in the walls until water is restored.

You know, i wish ALL WINTERIZATION PROCEDURES WERE PROPERLY AND COMPLETELY FOLLOWED, by some kind of regulated professional.

Then we could have a modicum of a reasonable expectation that
AT LEAST it was not an improper " winterization" that caused problems in an otherwise working plumbing system.

Not going to happen.
What does surprise me is the Plumbers Union not getting involved though.

Banks go with cheap bid and you get what you pay for.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Looks to me like the home is about 50+ years old .
I wonder is it on a well and is the well water acidic .
Looks to me like it is coming from the water More info could help .
Roy

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jtribuzio

OK, is it common for a whole copper piping system to suffer galvanic reaction corrosion???

No.

Originally Posted by jtribuzio

The agent suggests galvanic reaction all the way.

What exactly is the agent's plumbing or chemistry expertise?

Originally Posted by jtribuzio

I think the home wasn't winterized correctly and there was freezing in pipes.

I don't know how you can conclude that or substantiate it in any way. Just report the facts and leave opinions out of home inspection reports.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by rcooke

Looks to me like the home is about 50+ years old .
I wonder is it on a well and is the well water acidic .
Looks to me like it is coming from the water More info could help .
Roy

We have Lake Michigan Roy.

[Joseph Tribuzio]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

No.



What exactly is the agent's plumbing or chemistry expertise?



I don't know how you can conclude that or substantiate it in any way. Just report the facts and leave opinions out of home inspection reports.

YEAH - he swore up and down that he saw lots of homes with the entire piping suffering from galvanic reaction. I kept on telling him, i've never heard of it ever being beyond the point of metals touching.
He was adamant enough to introduce doubt in my mind.



Well, this is how i can conclude that and substantiate it:

there was NO winterization declarations in home.
there was crud at MOST fixtures and valves.
there was a water softening system which would have had to ALSO be winterized and it was not.- plus there was water leaking out of bottom of softener tank.

who can say, "as a fact" that ANY winterized home has been properly done? I just feel i have to look at some clues here and use some intuitive thought.