Trap under sink

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rmoore

I'm not saying you have to ignore it, but to raise the spectre of serious health hazards in this case is, IMO, overboard.

Isn't everything we do based on worst-case scenarios?

There actually are very few problems in our houses, all things considered, especially the number of houses. And who cares if one person gets sick, or is otherwise injured or killed? Very few people, actually. Until that one person is you or someone in your family. Then it's a much different story, isn't it?

I tend to look out for my Clients, so I'm not ashamed to point out the worst-case scenarios for them. In fact, they quite appreciate it from what I've been told.

[rmoore]

Originally Posted by rray

Well, if the slinky is damaged during move-out, and the new owners don't use that bathroom, the damage will allow the trap to dry out, at which time the health hazards certainly do exist.

Ummm...any trap can dry out. They are open already at the sink. That's how water gets in, remember?

If you want to know how bad sewer gases are, I challenge you to unhook the drain in your own kitchen or bathroom and see what your spouse has to say. No one wants to have sewer smells in their house. I should think that's a big DUH!

Yes Russell, thanks for stating the obvious.

Originally Posted by rray

And who cares if one person gets sick, or is otherwise injured or killed? Very few people, actually. Until that one person is you or someone in your family. Then it's a much different story, isn't it?

I tend to look out for my Clients, so I'm not ashamed to point out the worst-case scenarios for them. In fact, they quite appreciate it from what I've been told.

This from someone who won't move a towel aside in a bathroom to test a GFCI? I'll put my "looking out for my clients" up against yours any day. I'll assess situations on a individual basis and offer a reasoned opinion on them. What I won't do is make a mountain out of a mole hill and then stand on top yelling "look at me!"

DO NOT ever infer that I have anything less than my clients well being in mind.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rmoore

Ummm...any trap can dry out. They are open already at the sink. That's how water gets in, remember?

They dry out much, much faster when the water leaks out as opposed to evaporating.

Originally Posted by rmoore

Yes Russell, thanks for stating the obvious.

You are welcome. Sometimes the obvious needs to be restated.

Originally Posted by rmoore

What I won't do is make a mountain out of a mole hill and then stand on top yelling "look at me!"

It's pretty nice up here. And when it snows, one can ski down.

Originally Posted by rmoore

DO NOT ever infer that I have anything less than my clients well being in mind.

One never knows. Glad you do.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rmoore

This from someone who won't move a towel aside in a bathroom to test a GFCI?

Not only do I not move anything, but my inspectors don't move anything. If I were in my home state of Texas instead of California, I personally would move probably just about anything. Here in San Diego, though, it's a different story due to liability issues.

I do know of one home inspector who was sued in small claims court for damaging a priceless heirloom or some such by moving it, and my E&O provider has other horror stories, as well.

As with anything we do in our profession, do the best you can for your particular circumstances. My circumstances demand that I pay attention to what my E&O provider and my attorneys advise me to do and what not to do.

If there is something that I cannot do, I let my Clients and/or their Realtors know. If they then choose to do something that I cannot, that is there prerogative; perhaps they have better insurance than I do or they are not as smart as I am or they don't care or they ignore advice from their counselors. The major brokerages here also instruct their agents not to move things during their visual inspection, during open houses, etc.

I not only inform my clients, but I also educate them in my Interactive Report System on CD:

We often get asked why we didn’t move something during the course of our inspection, and every answer we give always comes back to insurance concerns.

We do not know what’s in the boxes, how much an item might have cost, or the special history of any item, so our insurance precludes us from moving something and possibly damaging it. Even the unlikeliest-looking item could be a priceless heirloom, or a priceless heirloom or artifact could be in that common cardboard box. We don’t like to damage things (we do feel pretty bad when it happens), but even when we do, we still don’t like paying for it. So we don’t want to be paying for something that someone said we broke or damaged (it might already have been broken or damaged), like the last known picture of Grandma or the priceless Ming vase from China (what’s it doing in the attic if it’s so priceless?).

Unfortunately, there are plenty of horror stories in the home inspection industry about inspectors moving things and damaging them, and our insurance premiums are already too high, so we just don’t move things.

Additionally, if we were to move only one item, we might be asked why we didn’t move every item. Where do we draw the line? Obviously, time constraints preclude us from moving every item, so, again, we just don’t move things; it’s either all or none. Remember, home inspectors are not movers, and we do not know of any movers who are home inspectors. They are two different professions.

Never had a complaint yet in 4½ years and thousands of inspections by me and my employees.

Eventually, I'll also include reference lawsuits so that they can even more fully understand why we do what we do, and why we don't do what we don't do.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Hi. Russel;

Why would anyone go to court an lose when the documentation was presented at the time of the Inspection, and why would he be penalized in Court for not having E&O.?
I fail to realize why having insurance or not for Errors and Ommission has to do with it.

I guess, I am confused of the system and logic.

Marcel

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Hi. Russel;

Why would anyone go to court an lose when the documentation was presented at the time of the Inspection, and why would he be penalized in Court for not having E&O.?
I fail to realize why having insurance or not for Errors and Ommission has to do with it.

I guess, I am confused of the system and logic.

Marcel

One doesn't go to court and lose when the documentation was presented at the time of the inspection. One goes to court to defend oneself from a lawsuit. Anyone can sue anyone at anytime for anything. Justified or not, the lawsuit has to be defended.

One is not penalized in court for not having E&O. One is penalized during the process and, possibly, at judgment time for not having E&O.

If I didn't have E&O and got sued, I would immediately be out $5,000 because that's what all the attorneys here charge as a retainer to even consider working on a home inspector case. And very few attorneys take credit cards, meaning that I'm out cash or I'm getting a $5,000 cash advance on a credit card, at exorbitantly high cash-advance interest rates.

That $5,000 retainer fee would be picked up by my E&O insurance provider allowing me to keep it in my business account and keep working.

And if one loses the case, one then has to pay the judgment. My E&O provider picks up the cost of the judgment minus my deductible.

Does that help?

[rmoewe]

Earl, Was it leaking? Did it drain okay? These are the two biggest questions you need to ask yourself, when you see this type of setup. Yes, it has a flexible drain, BUT how much of a bend is in it. It does not look like a whole lot. I would write up the flex pipe as an informational item. Something like:
The sink employs an unconventional, flexible drainpipe that could contribute to blockages.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Thanks Rray;

Now I am somewhat less confused.

I thought that the judiciary system was to protect the inoccent until proven guilty.

Like reading your posts. So if you are not guilty, why would it cost you $5000 to be acquitted of such claims.?

Thanks for your response.

Marcel (from the opposite side of the Country.)

[kfulton]

Originally Posted by jpope

You will not find the flex piping in the allowable materials shown in table 3002.1.

Drain/waste lines require a "smooth interior waterway."

Thank you. I was reading and reading then of course Mr Pope says it like it is.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Thanks Rray;


I thought that the judiciary system was to protect the inoccent until proven guilty.
Like reading your posts. So if you are not guilty, why would it cost you $5000 to be acquitted of such claims.?

That's true. But there is an expense in proving who is innocent and who is guilty. That's the nature of our justice system, and while it is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, I do believe it is the best the world has ever seen.

And the system does take into account frivolous lawsuits and the innocent because the system can award damages (attorneys' fees, etc.) to the innocent.

O.J. Simpson spent about $34 million, I think it was, to prove that he was innocent.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Thank you Russel R.

That explains to me that the Judiciary System can make you or break you, wether you are innocent or guilty. and yes $35 million dollars would prove you inoccent.

Thanks

Marcel

[Russel Ray]

Exactly.

That's why it is very important to carry appropriate business insurance.

It's no different from insuring your only car. If you get into an accident without insurance, it can make you or break you. However, if you have insurance, then you get a rental car free or at a discounted rate and you're still able to go places (like work) and do things.

Same with life insurance. If you die without it, it can make or break your family (children, etc.). If you die with it, they'll be eternally grateful.

Same with home insurance. If your place burns down without it, it can make or break you. If you have it, you typically get a per diem for hotel costs, clothes, meals, etc., and a new house.

Insurance, insurance, insurance. We all hate it until we need it. Then it was the best dollar we ever spent.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Thanks for the help R. Ray;

This scenario soulds like a wife, can't live with them and can't live without them. ha. ha.

Thanks,

Marcel