Water heater install in new home - how would you coment?

[kweiss]

Came across this installation in a high end custom home at the one year inspection. Wanted to get some thoughts and then I will post what I said in report.

The room that the units are installed in was originally going to be part of the attic space. According to the homeowners, the decision to finish this room was made at the very end of the build. They are using the room as a treadmill room with children play things present. Based on meeting the parents, I doubt that the kids use this room alone, but are present here when a parent is exercising.

My first concern was that the gas units are located in a unconfined room that is part of the home ventilation and is not separately ventilated. Checked the books and they seem to indicate that this is allowable except in bedrooms and bathrooms. However, I have never run into this in a newer home around here and do not particularly like it. Recommended that they install carbon monoxide detectors in here and consider either isolating the water heaters or changing the room to more of a storage room.

The TPR valves are plumbed straight down to the drain pans. I reported this as not allowed and dangerous to the residents in the event that the valves ever activated while people were in the room.

The pans, there are two typical low end pans, are plumbed together, but if you look closely you will notice that they are not plumbed out of the home. I reported this as wrong.

In lieu of properly plumbing the pans out, as best I can figure, they have installed the WAGS safety solenoid valves in the pans. Theoretically these valves would sense water in the pans and turn off the supply. I also did not like that they only ran the inlet plumbing for the right unit through the solenoid safety valve. The left unit, the second in series, solenoid valve is only connected to the gas control of the left unit. Therefore, the system is depending on the right unit solenoid for cutting off water. I feel that they should properly connect both solenoids to inlet lines for the best level of protection. Could it be argued that the installation of these solenoids valves can take the place of plumbing the pans to the exterior from this location inside the home?

I suspect that the plumber forgot to plumb the TPRs and the pans to the exterior and that they installed the solenoid valves as a way to fix it. The home has had a number of plumbing issues, including leaks and mold remediation already, so the quality of the plumbing work was already in question.

Opinions? Anything I missed? Codes that would not allow these units in this areas, rather than it just being unusual and not a good idea?

[mnahrgang]

Don't know about the solenoid, might want to consult with a plumber. As to the rest I don't have a problem with it.

[kweiss]

You don't have a problem with the installation or you don't have a problem with my comments?

[mnahrgang]

I don't have a problem with the location or the TPR.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by kweiss

You don't have a problem with the installation or you don't have a problem with my comments?

Those drain pans need a drain.

As far as the solenoids go , I do not recall seeing them other than on HVAC drain pans.

Location is fine.

Gosh I hate when they run flex line that way.

Is that proper B vent on the left. (it looks dis-colored)?

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by kweiss

My first concern was that the gas units are located in a unconfined room that is part of the home ventilation and is not separately ventilated. Checked the books and they seem to indicate that this is allowable except in bedrooms and bathrooms. However, I have never run into this in a newer home around here and do not particularly like it. Recommended that they install carbon monoxide detectors in here and consider either isolating the water heaters or changing the room to more of a storage room.

The TPR valves are plumbed straight down to the drain pans. I reported this as not allowed and dangerous to the residents in the event that the valves ever activated while people were in the room.

Maybe its a regional thing, I know where it's warm there are often mechanicals in the attic. Not around here. Anyhow, the CO recomendation is sound, but we often see, around here, mechanicals in unfinished or partially finished basements. Some enclose them (in a "mechanical room") for asthetic reasons, more than anything. They are often, in a ranch home in a "mud room' just off the garage.

Remember they need air to burn too!

As far as the valves go, into the pan is fine or into a floor drain, ok too. I never understood the pipe to the exterior (again, a regional thing, I guess) because how would you readily know if it was discharging?

Check out http://education.nachi.org/show.php?course_id=28 for more.

[Bob Elliott]

It can freeze up around here.
Texas is different.
They need a place to drain because they are in the attic,and why even have a drain pan at all otherwise

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by relliott

It can freeze up around here.

Really?

Originally Posted by relliott

Texas is different

No sh**!

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by rmaday

Really?






No sh**!

I understand the Mexican Language better than southern drawl.

(just kidding)( sorta

[Michael Larson]

You need to consider the issue of makeup/combustion air for the fuel burning appliances.

Take NACHIs water heater tanks course for a better explanation and requirements.

Read the Course materials HERE

[Jonathan T. Hittle]

In ohio the pan is required in a finished room. The drain are supposed to be pipe to an indirect drain visable in the room or a floor drain. I am a licensed plumber and have never seen the solenoids piped in this manner, mostly HVAC. Home security systems can place a contact sensor that will shut off the water. The location is fine (if you like them in a finished room). The carbon monoxide detectors are always my advice no matter where. The tprvs are to be piped 2" from floor(in this case pan). I ran into a lot of plumbing problems yesterday as well.(INSPECTING)I never do work on any house I inspect, mostly commercial and industrial. I hope this helps but ever locality has its own rules and regs. Was there a expansion tank?

[Brian E. Kelly]

TPR piping here either is plumbed to the exterior and visible, or plumbed to a drain with an air gap.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jhittle

In ohio the pan is required in a finished room. The drain are supposed to be pipe to an indirect drain visable in the room or a floor drain. I am a licensed plumber and have never seen the solenoids piped in this manner, mostly HVAC. Home security systems can place a contact sensor that will shut off the water. The location is fine (if you like them in a finished room). The carbon monoxide detectors are always my advice no matter where. The tprvs are to be piped 2" from floor(in this case pan). I ran into a lot of plumbing problems yesterday as well.(INSPECTING)I never do work on any house I inspect, mostly commercial and industrial. I hope this helps but ever locality has its own rules and regs. Was there a expansion tank?

Hi John
I believe the tanks only need the expansion bladder if there is a check valve upstream.
Correct?

[Jack L. Gilleland]

I would have a lot of difficulty accepting those TPR's being dumped into those pans without a drain. The TPR's would fill those pans in a heart beat (even just one) and in a finished room, well it would be unfinished and wet.
Bob I don't like the flex either, but what can you do.

[David P. Valley]

As to the secondary drainage pans, I like to see them piped to the soffit area (centered over the front door) so if they ever did leak, the homeowner knows that there's a problem in the attic when they observe dripping over their front door.

If they are not piped to a better location (garage area, basement, soffit area) and there is a water detection system in place, I let it go.

As to the WH's being installed in a living area (or vise versa), I simply remind my clients to NEVER box these in as they will always need combustion air to prevent CO poisoning.

CO detector installation is going to be required by the fire dept. on the Sellers close of escrow mandated walk-through.