Whats Wrong with this Water Service?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jpope

The location of the regulator is more of an issue than the fact that an exterior hose bib is not regulated.

The pressure should be regulated before it enters the structure, not somewhere within.

Regulators are often in crawl spaces and I don't have a problem with that (but admittedly not the most convenient location). A crawl space is defined as "accessible". I'm not aware of any code that states where the regulator has to be located. There should be no fittings prior to the regulator to prevent leaks, however. I wouldn't allow any fitted connection in the service pipe anywhere prior to the regulator (service pipe should be one piece).

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

I disagree with your interpretation that a crawlspace is considered "accessible" with regard to systems/components located within. It may be a regional thing, but CA crawlspaces are certainly not a "convenient" location for any service or repair.

Additionally, CA code allows for exterior hose-bibs to be unregulated with regard to pressure.

CPC 608.2 Excessive Water Pressure. Where static water pressure in the water supply piping is in excess of eighty (80) pounds per square inch (552 kPa), an approved-type pressure regulator preceded by an adequate strainer shall be installed and the static pressure reduced to eighty (80) pounds per square inch (552 kPa) or less. Such regulator(s) shall control the pressure to all water outlets in the building unless otherwise approved by the Authority Having Jurisdiction. Each such regulator and strainer shall be accessibly located above ground or in a vault equipped with a properly sized and sloped bore-sighted drain to daylight, shall be protected from freezing, and shall have the strainer readily accessible for cleaning without removing the regulator or strainer body or disconnecting the supply piping. All pipe size determinations shall be based on eighty (80) percent of the reduced pressure when using Table 6-6.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Just because it's inconvenient or that you have to crawl or get dirty doesn't mean something is "inaccessible". There is a difference between accessible and readily accessible, yes. And the CA nor the IRC states that the valve must be conveniently located.

Your CA code specifically states the strainer should be "readily accessible". But the reducing valve just has to be "accessible". The IRC does not state the the reducing valve must be "readily accessible". (I'm not familiar with a strainer at all.)

2009 IRC P2903.3.1 Maximum pressure. Maximum static pressure shall
be 80 psi (551 kPa). When main pressure exceeds 80 psi (551
kPa), an approved pressure-reducing valve conforming to ASSE
1003 shall be installed on the domestic water branch main or
riser at the connection to the water-service pipe."



2009 IRC SECTION R202
DEFINITIONS

ACCESSIBLE. Signifies access that requires the removal of
an access panel or similar removable obstruction.

Commentary: The code defines access as being able to be reached,
but first may require the removal of a panel, door or similar
obstruction. An appliance or piece of equipment is not
accessible if any portion of the structure’s permanent finish
materials, such as drywall, plaster, paneling, built-in
furniture, cabinets or any other similar permanently affixed
building component must be removed.

Commentary: In general, where immediate access is not required because
of the low level of hazard involved, an accessible
method is all that is mandated, such as the removal of an
access panel. The electrical definitions found in Chapter
34 contain two additional definitions for accessible that
apply specifically to electrical wiring methods and electrical
equipment. See Section 1102 of the IBC for the
meaning of “accessible” as it applies to the requirements
for “accessible” dwelling units in Section R326.

ACCESSIBLE, READILY. Signifies access without the
necessity for removing a panel or similar obstruction.

Commentary: Where this term is designated as a requirement by
other sections of the code, it is intended that access to
the device, controls, shut-off valves or other element
be extremely easy. “Readily accessible” means that
the device must be reachable directly without a panel,
door or equipment needing to be moved to gain access.
Chapter 24, Fuel Gas, has a similar definition
noted as “Ready access (to).”

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

It may be common practice, but it is a defect in my opinion. There are at least 2 fittings (at the T and at the hose bib) that could be overly stressed by high pressure and flood the crawl space.

Your correct and if you were the AHJ in my area you could enforce this, but unfortunately the ones who are find this practice acceptable.

I just smile and tell the buyer to buy a really good hose for the front yard.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

I just smile and tell the buyer to buy a really good hose for the front yard.

I concur...

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Your correct and if you were the AHJ in my area you could enforce this, but unfortunately the ones who are find this practice acceptable.

Just because the AHJ in your area is ignorant doesn't mean you have to find it acceptable. On almost every house, I write up something an AHJ found acceptable. In home inspections, I really don't care what the AHJ's practices or policies are.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Just because the AHJ in your area is ignorant doesn't mean you have to find it acceptable. On almost every house, I write up something an AHJ found acceptable. In home inspections, I really don't care what the AHJ's practices or policies are.

So, do you inspect homes as an HI, on homes that you were the AHJ?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jjonas

So, do you inspect homes as an HI, on homes that you were the AHJ?

No; that would be a conflict of interest. As a condition of my employment, my employer and I agreed that I would not perform private inspections within my jurisdiction.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Just because it's inconvenient or that you have to crawl or get dirty doesn't mean something is "inaccessible". There is a difference between accessible and readily accessible, yes. And the CA nor the IRC states that the valve must be conveniently located.

Even though you are technically correct with regards to interpretation, "accessible" can still be a subjective term. A thirty-foot belly crawl with PPE and limited clearance makes (in my opinion) a component inaccessible. If it were simply a matter of removing a crawlspace screen-cover, I would agree - that would be accessible.

I will give you this - In the OP it appears you have pretty easy access to the regulator, so your call would be technically correct with regards to accessibility.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Just because the AHJ in your area is ignorant doesn't mean you have to find it acceptable. On almost every house, I write up something an AHJ found acceptable. In home inspections, I really don't care what the AHJ's practices or policies are.

Would you find it acceptable if it were copper or galvanized?

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

I will say that I use judgement before writing up the lack of an air gap in the same room as water heater. If the WH is in a utility room, garage, or crawl space and the TPR discharges directly through the wall to the outdoors in a conspicuous area, I woudn't say anything even though that is a code violation (in this part of the country). But if the water heater is in an attic or some other interior area and the TPR discharge travels long distances through walls, floors, crawl spaces, etc. where the piping is not 100% visible I would write it up.

In the original photo, I was never able to find the discharge point.

??????
wrong one Joe!

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Whoops!