Basement waterproofing system

[David C. Macy]

It seems that this is a common practice these days. Home owner has water issues, calls a basement waterproofing company, and they install an interior basement system. This one had approval by the local jurisdiction.

First the sump pump. Improper wired with a purple extension cord, poorly discharged at exterior. (Just dump on ground so in can just seep down an infiltrate right back in) No back flow device.

Basement system. Panels installed at 1/4 wall level. Moisture readings 50% located above system.

My recommendation and observation.

The home owner was ripped off with an inferior system and exterior excavation is needed to properly waterproof the home.

Local Jurisdiction Building Inspector is inept. (The same jurisdiction approved a new heating system to vent up chimney with no liner/cap. Required by Ohio code. May be why chimney is heavily deteriorated.

Recommend qualified plumber and electrician to properly install pump that would not be needed if exterior excavation, grading and roof drainage was properly installed. Also a tree was recently cut down in close proximity of the home. I would have below ground storm drainage scoped to determine integrity.

Realtor/Home owner/Local jurisdiction all seem satisfied with system.

I say mold/moisture and improper. And I was asked there is a small hole in the block and I can see outside is this a problem?

I answer. Yes. The moisture is resulting in deteriorated mortar.

What do you say!!

[Richard A. Hetzel]

Someone applied a solution without diagnosing the problem. They do it all the time. The place to deal with basement water and moisture is OUTSIDE.

[john bubber]

You guys are right on the money

The basement water DIVERTING company,like MOST, did NOT competently and honestly diagnose/identify WHERE the g dang water is FIRST entering!

Jeeessssus kristmas,wake up folks will ya please!

Some OTHERS are also partly to BLAME for recommending this kind of CRAP and inept water-diverting co`s.For instance, Haege and most of these other inept home improvement radio show hosts,dang skippy! Tied of these bums.They don`t 'KNOW' chtt on THIS SUBJECT....PERIOD!
Same goes for MANY Bldg inspectors. I leave it there for the moment.

There are VERY likely EXTERIOR cracks and/or loose-cracked parging or NO parging at all on the outside of those block walls.....and in one picture there is SOME amount of water coming in from ABOVE grade.

These morons should be SUED for recommending and installing an inside system that does NOT,will NOT stop-prevent FURTHER WATER from where it is FIRST entering on the outside.If the water isn`t ELIMINATED/still entering then ya won`t stop-prevent further-future MOLD/EFFLORESCENCE. And RADON can enter through the same exterior openings....so too can termites,ants,centipedes etc.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Interior french drains are a joke...... I am amazed that anyone would buy off on such a method................being that moisture is a natural solvent (excellent one at that).............what do they think will eventually happen.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by john bubber

You guys are right on the money

The basement water DIVERTING company,like MOST, did NOT competently and honestly diagnose/identify WHERE the g dang water is FIRST entering!

Jeeessssus kristmas,wake up folks will ya please!

Some OTHERS are also partly to BLAME for recommending this kind of CRAP and inept water-diverting co`s.For instance, Haege and most of these other inept home improvement radio show hosts,dang skippy! Tied of these bums.They don`t 'KNOW' chtt on THIS SUBJECT....PERIOD!
Same goes for MANY Bldg inspectors. I leave it there for the moment.

There are VERY likely EXTERIOR cracks and/or loose-cracked parging or NO parging at all on the outside of those block walls.....and in one picture there is SOME amount of water coming in from ABOVE grade.

These morons should be SUED for recommending and installing an inside system that does NOT,will NOT stop-prevent FURTHER WATER from where it is FIRST entering on the outside.If the water isn`t ELIMINATED/still entering then ya won`t stop-prevent further-future MOLD/EFFLORESCENCE. And RADON can enter through the same exterior openings....so too can termites,ants,centipedes etc.

Good info. Nice to see you again John (err,...Mark).

[john bubber]

How ya doing Mr Kage

A few pics of another inside waterdiverting system

First 8 pics,other pics are of different house.Might have to sometimes click these links/pics 2 times,dunno what `im doing wrong w/them
http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailsh...283_111847456/

Again,the problems,exterior cracks `n lateral soil pressure,possible roots against wall.Cracks have widened a bit,homeowners have repeatedly cleaned mold off parts of inside wall,keeps coming back.Well,mold keeps coming back because water is entering through exterior cracks and probably some of the parging has cracked-loosened.ONLY way to STOP this water is exterior waterproofing.

Any possible roots against wall and the CLAY needs to be REMOVED and replaced with gravel....knothead inside system company doesn`t understand any of this or doesn`t give a chtt and recommends and sells homeowners the ONLY thing they do....install inside system.

Yes,pipe is leaking at corner where it goes through wall will need to be replaced.....2 part problem at corner.The money that was spent on the inside system should have been spent on exterior waterproofing.

[Donald T. Belmont]

As often as I see folks try and go against the basic physics of water it never ceases to amaze.

The whole idea of waterproofing a hole in the ground is nonsense anyway. Water is lazy and will take the path of least resistance ,which is generally through your basement.

If there's any real hope of giving water that easy path and keeping it out of the basement it takes exterior excavation (or proper building in the first place).

Around here that means positive drainage around the footings and gravel backfill so gravity can work and let the water follow that easy path.

[Richie Dimmerling]

water diverting is not equal to water proofing

[Erol Kartal]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

Interior french drains are a joke...... I am amazed that anyone would buy off on such a method................being that moisture is a natural solvent (excellent one at that).............what do they think will eventually happen.

Last week we dug up and checked 28 year old crawl perimeter drainage tile that was found to be in excellent shape. How long does it usually take to deteriorate?

[john bubber]

Originally Posted by ekartal

Last week we dug up and checked 28 year old crawl perimeter drainage tile that was found to be in excellent shape. How long does it usually take to deteriorate?

Mr Erol,

Following pictures are of exterior tiles, 60+ years

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


Sometimes the exterior tiles can get clogged,break etc.Soil/roots etc can get in `em. In our 30 years about 90% of the time the exterior tiles are FINE.

Sometimes when house was built,mister builder/sub have screwed up placed the tiles 1-2' up from footing or placed them with 2-4" gaps between `em or didn`t lay them continuously....such as, they laid 5' and then no tiles for next 5' and so on.

Would NOT recommend the use of plastic perforated drain tiles at depths greater than 4' or so as they can/could easily get crushed due to weight of backfill on top of `em yet many-not all builders continue to use the CHEAP plastic perforated tile at depths greater than 4' and many city inspectors continue to OK them,a mistake imo.
--Selecting Perforated Pipe http://www.oxfordplasticsinc.com/perforatedpipe.htm

Say this again,exterior tiles have NOTHING to do with water that very OFTEN enters a basement or crawl THROUGH exterior cracks,loose-cracked parging etc and is then seen inside the basement at,along the floor-wall joint.

[Erol Kartal]

Originally Posted by john bubber

Mr Erol,

Following pictures are of exterior tiles, 60+ years

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/


Sometimes the exterior tiles can get clogged,break etc.Soil/roots etc can get in `em. In our 30 years about 90% of the time the exterior tiles are FINE.

Sometimes when house was built,mister builder/sub have screwed up placed the tiles 1-2' up from footing or placed them with 2-4" gaps between `em or didn`t lay them continuously....such as, they laid 5' and then no tiles for next 5' and so on.

Would NOT recommend the use of plastic perforated drain tiles at depths greater than 4' or so as they can/could easily get crushed due to weight of backfill on top of `em yet many-not all builders continue to use the CHEAP plastic perforated tile at depths greater than 4' and many city inspectors continue to OK them,a mistake imo.
--Selecting Perforated Pipe http://www.oxfordplasticsinc.com/perforatedpipe.htm

Say this again,exterior tiles have NOTHING to do with water that very OFTEN enters a basement or crawl THROUGH exterior cracks,loose-cracked parging etc and is then seen inside the basement at,along the floor-wall joint.

John, thank you. Good Information.

What I meant to say, is that we had plastic perforated drain tile installed along the inside of the crawl space perimeter. 2-3' down tied into a 3/4 Zoeller pump with battery back up in a sealed system. About 5-6'' cement covers the 10 mil vapor barrier. The water table is somewhat high near the home and cannot afford major trench digging. The foundation was found to be crack free.

[john bubber]

Any inside tiles that are perforated or butted agst each other etc can/could get clogged too.Sounds like you are A-OK.

Some who install inside systems will put a clean out in.

Those who have dirt floors are often going to see/get water on floor `cuz
........its a dirt floor.Those of us who have concrete bsmt/crawl floors do not SEE the water that IS under concrete floor.Some just need to pour
a floor.

Erol,you mentioned no cracks....you have poured crawl walls then?

You prolly know, block basement/crawl walls OFTEN have exterior cracks etc on the outside and are not visible on the inside.
And all the crawl walls we`ve seen have no parging,nothing on the outside
2-7...crawl
http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailsh...283_122238283/

Quite a few basement walls have no parging etc either, not as many as crawls though.

Some poured walls can have lil imperfections/gaps on outside at bottom of wall,can sometimes stick our scrapers through `em.Water can enter at
floor-wall joint through these gaps too. And sure,trying to divert some
surface water away doesn`t hurt.

If ya have block crawl walls and did need `em waterproofed they most often are not deep,pretty easy hand-dig`s,less work/materials so less
costly.Example...3 crawl walls,1 is 30' and 2 @ 24'ea. 78' total.Now it depends on depth.Say they`re 4' deep....prolly cost about $4-5 thou.
Those that are 2-3' deep would less...2' deep cost $2,500.

[Michael Bazzo]

Hey Mark,

Call me, I have a client that would like to speak to you about there basement

586-855-7644

[Thomas G. Valosin]

Opinion only - Lets' get away from holes in the ground! Man emerged from caves only to build his home over one. Is that progress?
In our geographic area (most of the NorthEast), with relatively high water tables, here is my tongue-in cheek definition: Basement: an in-ground swimming pool you try to keep water out of.

If I built another home, even with all the building science we now know, there is no way I would put money into a hole in the ground! Better into an additional above ground square footage. I would go with a properly constructed and insulated slab, add piers and build up from there with attention to both insulation and vapor barrier construction and placement.
Heat and cool with geothermal ground-source coupling wells and radiant pipes in the floor.

[john bubber]

Originally Posted by mbazzo

Hey Mark,

Call me, I have a client that would like to speak to you about there basement

586-855-7644

Thanks Mike