Cantilevered Joists

[Steven Brewster]

Interesting finding. I was asked to inspect the installation of the subfloor in this home and found the following. The floor joists are 2" x 10" - 16" o.c. attached to built-up 2" x 12" beams. The home is approximately 30' wide with the beams spaced 10" o.c. (joist span 10'). The floor joists are cantilevered approximately 5" on all exterior walls. There is a gable roof but the attic was not entered to determine the type framing.

Looks like this platform was constructed for brick veneer that was not installed. The floor joist on the gable ends do not have blocking installed and are only supported by the beams every 10'. This does not appear to be adequate to me. I would like your input on 2 issues. 1) would blocking between these joists provide adequate support? 2) would the installation of brick veneer be sufficient to bear the load of the end walls since the sill plate is not covering both the block/brick? There is adequate footing for a veneer wall.

Any input would be appreciated.

[lewens]

Originally Posted by Steven Brewster

Looks like this platform was constructed for brick veneer that was not installed.

This statement confuses me. Brick veneer should be installed on the foundation wall and not on the platform deck. The deck would move too much with the change in live load and thus weaken the bond between the masonry and the deck. The brick veneer would not last very long at all before it started to fall off the building.
That the decking overhangs the foundation wall 5" is indicative of a foundation contractor that doesn't know how to read drawings, or the homeowner/contractor was trying to save money on concrete. The 5" cantalever is well within the specs allowable for this type of thing but to me there is more to this than a 5" overhang. Ask to see the drawings and have a good look at the design of the building. Something is definately amiss here.
Larry

[rrichards2]

The cantilever around the house may have been a provision for a future foundation wall finish stone, brick etc as mentioned before. However, the floor joist framing on two ends of this house is wrong. The second to last joist should be doubled up and lookouts/stringers should projected out at 16" o.c to create the overhang/cantilever , all with proper hangers installed. The current configuration is not providing any structural support.

I would recommend immediate repairs by a qualified framing contractor.

Roy

[Steven Brewster]

Sorry for the misconception Larry, sometimes my thinkin goes faster than my fingers. What I was trying to say, the approx. 5" cantilever is about right to install brick veneer against the foundation wall (block). It appears the veneer has been omitted at some point in the construction. Any way back to the original questions I posted, any feedback?

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by Steven Brewster

would the installation of brick veneer be sufficient to bear the load of the end walls since the sill plate is not covering both the block/brick?

Veneer brick should not be installed to bear the weight of anything above it. It's a siding only. If weight is applied to a veneer brick siding, the wall will definitely bow.
Attachment 3335
click to enlarge

I've never seen such an excessive overhang on any building. There's something wrong here...

In pic #3...what's holding this side of the house in place? It appears to be an empty cavity.

Is this a manufactured home that was placed on top of this poured foundation.

[Steven Brewster]

Attached is a detailed drawing of what a brick & CMU stem wall should look like. Just seems to me it will be difficult to add this additional brick properly to support the wall load.

I was told a few hours ago that the brick was omitted by the purchaser and would be installed sometime in the future. What a place to cut costs!!!!

[rrichards2]

Originally Posted by Steven Brewster

Attached is a detailed drawing of what a brick & CMU stem wall should look like. Just seems to me it will be difficult to add this additional brick properly to support the wall load.

I was told a few hours ago that the brick was omitted by the purchaser and would be installed sometime in the future. What a place to cut costs!!!!

The brick is not a load bearing component of this wall, it is only a decorative veneer. The foundation block wall and the floor joists are the structural components. The floor joist framing on this house has been done incorrectly. The cantilevered joists should all look like the first picture on the left.

Roy R.

[Steven Brewster]

Roy, I tend to disagree. If you study the details of the diagram I submitted earlier and view the photos below, the brick has got to carry some of the load. Picture this type stem wall as a brick curtain wall with CMU supports. Same principle. At least thats the way I understand it.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

1. It's possible that blocking the last joist bay might be sufficient, but that's a call for a Structural Engineer. It's a cantelever calculation and framing members supporting cantelevers are supposed to extend two thirds of the overhang distance to the interior of the bldg.

2. Any part of the building bearing a load should be designed for that purpose. Seems to me that a veneer resting on a ledge might be sufficient depending on the veneer and foundation construction but then again, maybe not. I see it as requiring engineering calculations.

my 2¢ -Kent

[rrichards2]

Maybe I should have added that I am a trade certified carpenter and general contractor. I have been building and renovating homes for more than 20 years. Brick or no brick, the joist framing on this house is still wrong. The rim joist that is floating in the air right now and end nailed to that beam is not providing any structural support for that exterior wall above it. I would suspect you might find some cracks on the interior wall by now or will soon.

[Steven Brewster]

I agree with you Roy that this is wrong but if the brick stem wall had been installed initially (as pictured in the earlier diagram with proper sill plate/bolted) no problem would exist. I was interested in what others might do to correct this deficiency.

As well, I have been remodeling for over 10 yrs. .Thanks for the input.

[rrichards2]

Originally Posted by Steven Brewster

I agree with you Roy that this is wrong but if the brick stem wall had been installed initially (as pictured in the earlier diagram with proper sill plate/bolted) no problem would exist. I was interested in what others might do to correct this deficiency.

As well, I have been remodeling for over 10 yrs. .Thanks for the input.

I gave you the answer several posts above. If you are in the remodeling business, you should know the answer yourself. Now I know why houses
down there blow away whenever the wind picks up. Good luck.

[Steven Brewster]

Lucky you, no tornados or hurricanes to blow you away. Thanks for your input.

[rrichards2]

Originally Posted by Steven Brewster

Lucky you, no tornados or hurricanes to blow you away. Thanks for your input.

Actually, we do get them, and earthquakes too!
However, not as often as you guys.