Collar tie

[nbhi]

Inspected a house, 85yrs. young yesterday and when I inspected the attic, this is what I found. There is no ridge rafter and no collar ties. The joint where the two rafters connect are good. Not sure if I should call this out. Again, this home is 85 yrs. young and no problems as of yet.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Generally I would not call out the need to add collar ties unless you observed dipping or bowing in the roof plane.

From your photo the roof framing looks fairly straight (without significantly noticeable bows in the structural framing).

[bdoles2]

Looks to be typical for a home of that age. If there are no signs of sagging or any other defect in regards to support, I wouldn't bother with it being in my report.

But I have on occasion inserted an illustration to explain the dynamics behind a collar tie.

[David P. Valley]

I agree with both.

If there are no obvious issues with bowing or sagging of the rafters or exterior studded walls after all these years, then there's no need to upgrade.

[nbhi]

Thanks to all. That was my thought also.

[jkogel]

My step-dad's garage stood for about 90 years with no collar ties and only two 12' joists holding 24' long walls together. The roof caved in about a month ago with a foot of wet snow on it. The end of one of the joists was rotten and the nails finally let go.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

I think I would still point out their absence and say the construction technique doesn't conform to current standards but may have been typical when the house was built. Say that there is no visible sagging and you see no reason to upgrade, but that they can get a 2nd opinion if they desire. Would not put it in the Summary as a significant issue.

[Erby Crofutt]

Y'all that talked about sagging might want to read a bit more about the difference in location and purpose of collar ties versus rafter ties.

In short, RAFTER TIES help prevent sagging. COLLAR TIES are there to prevent uplift.

The picture shown is typical for the age of the home. Rafter opposing rafter with the ceiling joists acting as rafter ties.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Erby is correct.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

I simply ask myself this....."does the issue adversely effect the home in any manner of which would reasonably be of interest to my client?"

Construction and installation methods are going to change to some degree however how are they effecting the home now.


regards

Jeff

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

I simply ask myself this....."does the issue adversely effect the home in any manner of which would reasonably be of interest to my client?"

Construction and installation methods are going to change to some degree however how are they effecting the home now.


regards

Jeff

Absolutely NOT.

Report what you see and you're job is done.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Good reference guide for construction terminology
http://www.ahfc.state.ak.us/iceimage...n_appderef.pdf


Collar tie

A horizontal member used to tie a pair of opposing rafters together. May be high to hold the upper joint together or may be low to serve as a ceiling joist. Also called a collar beam.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by dvalley

Absolutely NOT.

Report what you see and you're job is done.

Hi David,

I respectfully disagree........ while inspectors are "generalists" many inspectors have extensive knowledge in various fields.........if a licensed electrician can make a call in regards to an area of his expertise then so be it............clients (and agents) find it annoying for an inspector to constantly be referring the client to a specialist.

I have 30 years in construction, in particular with framing as well as several other disciplines / phases of residential construction.....which is why agents love to hire me..............I seldom refer them to other trade specialist if I know the answer.............that is what I am getting at.

Sorry if I failed to make my self clear on that.

Let me also say that our state standards of practice clearly states that we are to report on any "systems or components so inspected which do not function as intended, allowing for normal wear and tear, and/or adversely affect the habitability of the dwelling......"

regards....

Jeff

PS. Also, if it has not already been stated; many of these style homes, typically built (thrown together) after WWII for the many veterans coming home...........taking into consideration that many counties didn't even have building inspections on this units, it was pretty much up to the contractor to ensure that such dwelling was safe. Like others have said, unless that roof is sagging........if its been doing well for 50 years then I wouldn't write it up........at least not in our "summary page" which is specially for items that are deficient or require further investigation.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Good reference guide for construction terminology
http://www.ahfc.state.ak.us/iceimage...n_appderef.pdf


Collar tie

A horizontal member used to tie a pair of opposing rafters together. May be high to hold the upper joint together or may be low to serve as a ceiling joist. Also called a collar beam.

Local nomenclature aside, that's simply a bad definition.
I've never heard the term "collar beam" used by anyone who was qualified in either log homes or conventional homes.
Collar ties go in the upper third of the roof and prevent uplift.
Rafter ties go low in the roof and tie the bottoms of opposing rafters together to keep the tops of the walls from spreading and the ridge from sagging.

Framing without a ridge was standard practice for many years. Lack of a ridge in a home from that era is only a defect if the ridgeline sags due to a missing ridge. I've never seen a ridgeline sag because no ridge was installed. It's pretty much always because of the lack of rafter ties or severely undersized and sagging rafters. Almost always the former.

[Claude Lawrenson]

How about this one:
http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/ir/ir225/ir225.pdf