Cut floor joist ok with engineer

[Bruce A. King]

The builder on this 5 year old house had his engineer look at the plans and his picture of this cut floor joist.

The engineer basically said this:

Based on the short span and the fact that the next adjacent joist is less than 24" from the foundation wall, the notched joist is an irrelevant structural member and therefore, no repair is needed.


Note how he did not specify the span or the exact spacing of the next joist to the foundation wall. It was not what I would call a "short span". If my memory is good, I think the joist is under some kitchen cabinets and the drain pipe goes to the upper floor.

Nothing in his letter even indicated that he visited the property.

Anyone ever run into anything similar?

[James H. Bushart]

Advise your client to ensure that the engineer is licensed and insured. Then, file the certification for the cut joist with the deed, since it is likely to be an issue when the home is sold again in the future.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Based on the limited view in your picture, I would tend to agree with the engineer. Do you have more information that might support a need for repair?

[Michael Larson]

It's in the outer 1/3 but looks deeper than D/6 to me.

Let the engineer take the responsibility.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

It not uncommon, I take into account the joist spacing a well and if possible try to determine if any significant load is being exerted upon the joist......when I am unable to give a definitive assessment the I simply report what I find and advise an SE to address same. Weather I agree with the SE is irrelevant considering his letter / insurance supersedes my HO.

Jeff

[James E. Braun, CMI]

The engineer is working for the home builder, so he is going to agree with the builder. Sad but true.

Get it in writing on his letterhead and his engineer's stamp. You did your job. Done.
If you cannot get it in writing, then the builder needs to get an engineer that will put his license on the line, or the builder needs to repair the joist.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

It looks like the cut joist is effectively a 2x6. If the spans not too great and it's under cabinets, it doesn't look like much of a big deal.

[Joe Farsetta]

I agree.

Unless and until the HI carries a PE license, our opinion is truly irellevent. Aside from that, I agree with the engineer's assessment. If this is original to the initial build, it further supports the engineer.

[Michael Larson]

It looks to be under the toilet flange.

Not good.

[Bruce A. King]

Its under the kitchen cabinets, the pipe goes to the upstairs plumbing.

It would have been interesting to see how many of the responses would have varied if I had left out the part about the engineer signing off on it.

[Joe Farsetta]

Bruce,

The engineer's okay is the lynch-pin, and essentially takes us out of the equation.

Remember, we often recommend further investigation from a licensed professional engineer, anyway.

I was involved in a project recently where the contractor used incorrectly rated concrete in a structural pour.

We agreed to allow the PE of record on the design make a determination as to the adequacy of the concrete based on the proposed application. We also brought in a Phd SE/PE to check the first PEs calculations.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

...I was involved in a project recently where the contractor used incorrectly rated concrete in a structural pour...

How was it caught? Core-testing?

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Compression tests. . .

Most jobs require samples to be provided from each truck. These samples are tested after they have cured.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Yep! 1 at 14 days
2 @ 28
and 1 @ 56 days if one of the 28 falls below designed strength.
More than 3 consecutive test 300 psi below design is considered failure to meet design and might have to be replaced.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

I found this one in Indiana, guess they did not need it. Don't know why, there was plenty of cracks in the sidewalk and pay no attention to the roof leader.