Drainage & Grading

[David C. Macy]

Now that I am involved in my first law suite.

I want to try to add more disclaimers and additional information to try to let the client understand that there are limitations to inspecting drainage.

I do note if there are covered walls/storage/fresh paint and if I see the sign of moisture at the floor & wall I will report that the drain tiles appear to be plugged and recommend scoping.

Does anyone scope the drain tiles with a telescopic camera?

The suite I am involved in is for broken drainage tiles. There was no signs on the exterior and I did document 2 large trees that can cause damage & blockage. I also thought I had enough disclaimers and info in my report.

But as most expierenced inspectors know if someone wants to sue you the will.

The reason I am posting this here is that I would like to ask how other inspectors report or disclaim on drainage & grading. I read Dr. swifts article and will add that to my remarks portion of my report.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

I am so happy to be paying the 2500 deductable for something I couldnt see and also documented as such.

I hope my lawyer can counter claim for the deductable, time lost and as the plantiff is stating Pain & suffering. Yea he is the pain & I am suffering.

[ekartal5]

David it doesn't sound like they have a chance. Get every penny you can from this idiot. The only part of this job that sucks - getting sued for doing a good honest job.

Erol Kartal
ProInspect

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

This thread should be moved to the Member's Only area (Legal thread) if the topic involves pending Litigation.

[David C. Macy]

Joe

I already posted there about 2 weeks ago. I wanted to submit here to obtain information pertaining to other inspectors techniques for inspecting drainage.

Dave

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

David:

For myself, Inspection is limited to visible conditions.

Inspection of a drainage tile would only be made if the area was excavated or still exposed such as a Construction Phase Inspection.

How did the client discover the problem with the drainage tile?

[David C. Macy]

Stated his basement kept flooding.

The seller disclosed that there was a storm in 04 and he repaired in 05.

There where no signs on the walls when I was there.

The sellers are the primary defendents and he decided he might as well sue me to.

Dave

I even stated in the report that the large trees close to the house are a major concern. I remember telling him the potential of this problem. I didnt word it in my report as through as i should of.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

David:

- Condition was previously disclosed to Buyer.
- Drain Tiles are not Readily Accessible and/or Visible to Inspect.
- Condition would not be visible at time of Inspection.
- Condition was not visible to Home Seller / Buyer prior to close of escrow.
- Condition is outside the scope of a Home Inspection.

[Jay Moge]

i have a detailed leagal "agreement" that every client signs. it says (in short) that i can not and will not inspect or be responsible for any damage that isn't readily visisble at time of inspection. and in another paragraph it says that i'm not legaly bound to anyone but the client, and his/her spouse weather the spouse signs or is present or not. the seller (in this case) would have no feet to stand on if they tried to sue me, plus if they did, since i'm LLC, they'd only be awarded 300% of the cost of the inspection anyway. and since the court fees and lawyers would cost alot more than that, it's just not worth it. if they have a major issue that i missed, i'll either fix it or refund them the cost of the inspection+. after escrow, it's all over.

[ccoombs]

I would suggest you contact RRay and get a copy of the information he provides. It is more than a disclaimer, more like a common sense approach of what to expect from his inspection.

[Russel Ray]

Here's some of the stuff that I use in my report:

Exterior grounds—Flat or nearly flat areas near foundation. Water might pond in flat or nearly flat areas. Exterior grading drainage cannot be adequately determined during dry weather. Condition can undermine the structure foundation and cause subsequent damage, including settling cracks in the walls and ceilings. Recommend monitoring grading during rainfall and further evaluation if water ponding or other problems detected.

Exterior grounds—Moderate to steep slopes on property. These types of slopescan result in erosion during periods of rainfall or overwatering. Recommend monitoring grading during periods of rainfall and further evaluation by licensed landscape professional if erosion or other problems detected.

Exterior grounds—Swales and/or secondary drains present. Swales are landscape features typically created by the builder or a landscape service to direct water away from the structure foundation. Secondary drains typically occur at the termination of a swale or receive water from roof downspouts. Testing swales and secondary drains for actual function in draining water away from the areas which they serve is not within the scope of a home inspection. Recommend keeping swales and secondary drains clear of obstructions. Recommend regular homeowner monitoring and maintenance.

Exterior grounds—Water pond on property.Standing water in ponds can provide homes to various pests, some of which create health hazards. Ponds also create safety hazards for small children and some pets. Depending on the size of the pond, water might also seep through the pond lining/container, possibly affecting soil conditions and causing cracks or other damage to hardscape and, if close enough, the structure foundation. Recommend ensuring that pond is not accessible to small children and pets. Recommend regularly checking pond for pests such as mosquitoes. Recommend regular homeowner monitoring and maintenance.

Roof—Gutters and downspouts not present. Maintenance concern. Condition can cause damage to the siding and the foundation. Water directed too close to the foundation can cause undermining of the foundation, excessive settling, and damage, typically seen as excessive, long, or wide cracks in the foundation, walls, and ceilings. Recommend having gutters and downspouts installed to help direct water away from siding and foundation.

Roof—Too few downspouts installed; distance between downspouts too great.Too few downspouts and long gutter distances between downspouts usually cause the gutters to become full and overflow. Weight of water in full gutters can cause gutters to pull away from house. Both conditions can cause property damage. Recommend having additional downspouts installed.

Roof—Downspouts terminated next to foundation. Water directed at or near the foundation can cause undermining and settling damage. Recommend having termination points extended away from foundation.

Roof—Downspouts terminated in secondary drains. Recommend regularly monitoring secondary drains to ensure proper function in draining water away from structure.

Roof—Some upper downspouts terminated on lower roof. Water exiting downspouts can cause damage to roofing components. Recommend having downspouts extended to lower gutters or, preferably, to ground.

Just some of many that might be relevant. Feel free to pick and choose as you see fit.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by dmacy

I do note if there are covered walls/storage/fresh paint and if I see the sign of moisture at the floor & wall I will report that the drain tiles appear to be plugged and recommend scoping.

Also could be missing drain tiles, poor soils, inadequate dampproofing, high/seasonal groundwater, poor grading, inadequate/damaged roof drains and extensions ... or some combination. I would just recommend further evaluation when moisture penetration is suspected.

Originally Posted by dmacy

I read Dr. swifts article and will add that to my remarks portion of my report.

I assume ya mean the "Avoiding Litigation" series from Porter Valley, which is a good start.

I also assume this involves water penetration into a finished basement, which is being blamed on faulty drain tiles. Like some other things they do not have an infinite life, need maintenance/repair occasionally, and do not keep basements relatively dry under all circumstances.

I would just be careful about looking for any signs of moisture penetration ... even something as small as a musty odor. Also make sure you point out the potential for basement water penetration, even if there are no obvious signs at the time of the inspection.

And remember there are two types of basements ... those that are leaking, and those that will leak ...