I know what I am going to write about this firewall. I just want too see if anyone has anything to say about it.
Thanks!
What are you going to write Buck?
The integrity of this wall is negatively impacted. I have never seen this before, not even in my Fire Marshal days.
Was that a firewall or a compartmentalized separation?
Marcel,
I think it is a firewall. Even showed a local AHJ the photo, he said it was poor attempt. I do not know what this local AHJ would say? There are several in this METRO area. Which ever, I do not think either one would work.
Thanks!
Buck, my next question would be what are they trying to protect?
The picture looks like a hip roof with collar ties.
A true firewall cannot have penatrations with combustible material.
Just can’t see the whole picture.
Is it a dwelling or a condo?
Marcel,
This is a condo/townhome unit. Approx. 3,000 sq.ft. on each side, it is a hip roof.
Thanks!
Then this is a fire wall that should not be breached.
Good call.
Thanks!!
Why don’t you just admit you do not know what to put or know what you are looking at… just about every time you post a picture you ask the same question…" what would you say about …blah, blah, blah"
First you tell us it’s a firewall and then when asked a couple legit questions you then doubt yourself…and now you say… “I think its a firewall…”
You really don’t know do you… lol… this is one of the many reasons I laugh at the CMI program.
You say this is a Condo…which means there should be a parapet (I hope you know what that is)…do you have a picture of the parapet…what type is it, how thick, how tall, etc. The drywall… it appears to be taped…however does it have fire barrier sealant around the 2x4’s… is their a ledger board behind the drywall which is supporting the 2x4’s supports… I would bet there is…one picture tells us very little… you seem to be making a lot of assumptions… and we know what happens when people assume.
Why the rant and belittlement? Oh it is not about Politics and religion , No wonder no one likes posting Hi matters, they get attacked. I am glad certain People no so much about everything.
It wouldn’t qualify As Fire wall IMO , But someone must of Past it . Perhaps it is like here i ran into a similar thing , Hole cut into the garage ceiling for air intake for the furnace( didn’t need it)
I called the code Dept, it was stated it was grandfather in They used the code 1996 up to 2000, I told him this home is only 5 years old , he stated the same thing. LOL
I left my report the same , Let them figure it out.
A simple fire damper would solve it .
Anyway keep asking and sharing ignore the rants some can not help it,
Jeffery, I knew what it was before I asked, just trying to help someone else, something you seem to know nothing about. I also know what happens when you *** u me. AND you seem to be a BIG one.
Thanks! Wayne, we need more training on this board, instead of all the other BS.
Because Buck is full of crap… you obviously are not astute to his posts which pretty much consist of posting pictures and asking others what they would write…even though he says he knows what he is going to put…this coming from a Chief Master Inspector. Maybe you are naive to fall for his BS but I am not.
If you could actually read between the lines you to would know he is full of crap… look what he writes… “I know what I am going to write about the firewall…blah, blah, blah” And then it goes to “I THINK its a firewall…”
When a novice post stuff like he post I would be glad answer their questions…but when Buck who puts himself out there as a CMI post crap of which he know squat about and yet wants other to think he actually knows what he is talking about… I don’t think so… if you want to stroke his ego be my guest… but not me.
My suggestion is that he actually delves into the Nachi education data base and learn a thing or two versus getting others to help figure out what he is looking at with one or two pictures and then tell him how to write his report… all the while to make others think he knew the answer the whole time.
You say you wouldn’t qualify it as a firewall…why is that Wayne?
I don’t know what you are looking at Wayne but you are sure quick to disapprove a wall of which you know nothing about the taping, fastening, sealants, framing behind the wall, parapets, flashing etc…yet you can look at one picture and call it out… are you sure you want to stand behind that statement.
This is one of the reasons that GC’s often laugh at HI’s… they are quick to say something is wrong yet when pressed they cant tell you jack squat what is wrong with it other than it just doesn’t look right. I would think a CMI could at least articulate what about it that does not look right instead of asking others what they would put and then agreeing with whatever they say.
Most CMI’s I respect, be it Marcel, Joe F, and many others…however when I see one that is full of crap then don’t get upset when I point it out… just as I point out that the CMI program is currently an advertising gimmick… and many including CMI’s themselves know it.
As to people not wanting to post stuff… I have never belittled anyone on a home inspection post with the exception of Buck when he wants to pull his “what would you write about this, I know what I would write… crap”
Finally, I find laughable how you want to take the high road on this yet you feel the need to make inference to our disagreement on religion and politics … we may not agree on those topics…that’s fine… however I will never let it influence my desire to help or ask for help from a person in the same field which we all work regardless as to their views on those subjects…by your very comments you seem to not be able to separate those issues from other issues… that’s too bad.
regards
Jeff
Wood running going threw the dry wall is a big hint, and your right unless i tested it my self i can only go by what i see, i was did fire inspections , AS FAR AS WORRYING ABOUT GC laughing i could care less, If they are so good there would be no need for HI.
Some are sad little men, you know what i mean.
Using wood, one can not make a house fire proof… the fact that a 2x4 is running through drywall does not in and of itself make it a fire hazard…when properly sealed…as is evident by the use of sealants in any hole that penetrates the sill and top plates… and I can guarantee that no inspector checks those areas.
As to more GC’s needing to do quality work… I will give you that one… most are nothing but paper pushers who have never framed any type of home in their life… that I do have a problem with. However I also know their is more liability in me inspecting a home than building one… which makes it even more important for any HI to take their jobs seriously…including getting off their lazy arses and get into NACHI’s ***FREE ***educational site… NACHI is so far ahead of its competition and yet you have bozo’s who dont know jack squat but want to portray themselves as a CMI…that is my beef.
regards
PS. I have yet to see any answers about the parapet wall…that speaks volumes of itself.
You are ASSUMING again!!
Jeffrey -
Not to rude, BUT you said to this Buck guy:
“You say this is a Condo…which means there should be a parapet (I hope you know what that is)…do you have a picture of the parapet…what type is it, how thick, how tall, etc”
My question is have you ever built OR are you just new and limited in your inspection experience; OR are you just used to 1 area of the country AND since your area does things 1 way - you ASSUME everyone else does too.
There are all kinds of Condo’s AND most of them in **MY **area DO NOT use a parapet, **AND **since I only care about whats going on in MY area, OBVIOUSLY your statement is coming out of left field and makes many of us wonder about your credibility.
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I have installed 100’s of these attic fire-blocks and I think there is some misunderstanding regarding their fire-ratings. These walls in the attic of condos and townhomes are not the same as the garage firewalls. They are fire-blocks or draft-stops. Here is the UBC code regarding these attic fire-stops.
Fireblock/Draftstop
708 Fireblocking and Draftstopping
General. In combustible construction, fireblocking and draftstopping shall be installed to cut off all concealed draft openings (both vertical and horizontal) and shall form an effective barrier between the floors, between the top story and a roof or attic space, and shall sub divide attic spaces, concealed roof spaces and floor to ceiling assemblies.
708.2.2 Fire blocking construction. Fire-blocking shall consist of 2 inch nominal lumber….etc. and gypsum……etc.
Bucks fire-stop is perfectly fine by code as it does not need to be non combustible material.
Information here might help some.
First, it was established that the discussion was about an attic separation in the attic of a Townhome/Condominium.
Dan is correct in that not all Condo’s have parapet walls.
Building design and new codes have changed all of that.
Mark, it appears that since it has been established that this is a condo, firestopping and draftstopping all become part of the assembly that is required by code for a true rated wall separation between the units.
What is pictured above is not.
“Fireblocking” is now defined as generic materials, such as lumber, structural wood panels, gypsum board, cement fiberboard or particleboard, batts or blankets of glass, or mineral wool, installed within concealed spaces to resist or block the migration of fire and hot gases for an undetermined period of time.
Fireblocking is used to subdivide or block off the stud cavity inside a wall, in a soffit over cabinets, between stair stringers at the top and bottom of a run, in an exterior cornice, or in the space between the combustible finish materials and the wall itself.
The definition of “Draftstopping” is similar to fireblocking.
Draftstopping is used to subdivide flooring at specific intervals, and in attics and crawl spaces. In combustible construction, nearly all the codes specify that lumber or wood structural panels may be used for this purpose.
Some codes include other draftstopping materials, such as gypsum
board, cement fiberboard or particleboard.
Townhouses or Condominiums
Dwelling unit, generally having two or more floors and attached to other similar units via party walls.
Town houses are often used in planned unit developments and condominium developments, which provide for clustered or attached housing and common open space.
When it comes to defining area separation–type walls and how they are to be constructed in townhouse and apartment applications, all roads lead through the national model building codes.
And whether the codes define a wall system as a “fire wall,” “party wall,” “area separation wall,” or “townhouse separation wall,” it must meet the same requirements. Namely, it must be a wall that:
- Is continuous from the foundation to the underside of the protected roof sheathing or continues through the roof to form a parapet, and;
- Is designed to allow for collapse of the construction on the side of the wall exposed to fire without collapse of the separation wall.
Gypsum board area separation walls must be installed using the components and installation methods described in the corresponding fire test or listing.
- Gypsum board area separation walls can be constructed with or without a parapet.
Building codes usually allow builders to eliminate parapets in townhouse construction if the proper combination of the following conditions is met:
- The roof is covered with a code-defined minimum (usually Class C) roofing material and;
- The roof decking or sheathing is constructed with noncombustible material, or approved fire-retardant–treated wood, for a minimum distance of four feet on each side of the firewall or;
- A layer of 5/8-inch-thick type X gypsum board is installed immediately beneath the roof sheathing for a distance of at least 4 feet on either side of the townhouse separation wall.
Hope this helps a little.
Here we are still working off the UBC and the blueprints for condos and townhomes here refer to these walls as firestops and are built as such. I am not aware of the code you quoted, please enlighten me, and I admit I am not up on the IRC codes. Codes change, some get adobted, some not. The key is to know the best you can the history of code changes in your area.