Firewall

[Buck Hartley, CMI]

You are ASSUMING again!!

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Jeffrey -

Not to rude, BUT you said to this Buck guy:

"You say this is a Condo.....which means there should be a parapet (I hope you know what that is)....do you have a picture of the parapet....what type is it, how thick, how tall, etc"

My question is have you ever built OR are you just new and limited in your inspection experience; OR are you just used to 1 area of the country AND since your area does things 1 way - you ASSUME everyone else does too.

There are all kinds of Condo's AND most of them in MY area DO NOT use a parapet, AND since I only care about whats going on in MY area, OBVIOUSLY your statement is coming out of left field and makes many of us wonder about your credibility.

[Mark Thorman]

I have installed 100's of these attic fire-blocks and I think there is some misunderstanding regarding their fire-ratings. These walls in the attic of condos and townhomes are not the same as the garage firewalls. They are fire-blocks or draft-stops. Here is the UBC code regarding these attic fire-stops.


Fireblock/Draftstop


708 Fireblocking and Draftstopping
General. In combustible construction, fireblocking and draftstopping shall be installed to cut off all concealed draft openings (both vertical and horizontal) and shall form an effective barrier between the floors, between the top story and a roof or attic space, and shall sub divide attic spaces, concealed roof spaces and floor to ceiling assemblies.

708.2.2 Fire blocking construction. Fire-blocking shall consist of 2 inch nominal lumber….etc. and gypsum…..etc.

Bucks fire-stop is perfectly fine by code as it does not need to be non combustible material.

www.MauiHomeInspections.com

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Information here might help some.
First, it was established that the discussion was about an attic separation in the attic of a Townhome/Condominium.

Dan is correct in that not all Condo's have parapet walls.
Building design and new codes have changed all of that.

Mark, it appears that since it has been established that this is a condo, firestopping and draftstopping all become part of the assembly that is required by code for a true rated wall separation between the units.
What is pictured above is not.

"Fireblocking" is now defined as generic materials, such as lumber, structural wood panels, gypsum board, cement fiberboard or particleboard, batts or blankets of glass, or mineral wool, installed within concealed spaces to resist or block the migration of fire and hot gases for an undetermined period of time.
Fireblocking is used to subdivide or block off the stud cavity inside a wall, in a soffit over cabinets, between stair stringers at the top and bottom of a run, in an exterior cornice, or in the space between the combustible finish materials and the wall itself.

The definition of "Draftstopping" is similar to fireblocking.
Draftstopping is used to subdivide flooring at specific intervals, and in attics and crawl spaces. In combustible construction, nearly all the codes specify that lumber or wood structural panels may be used for this purpose.
Some codes include other draftstopping materials, such as gypsum
board, cement fiberboard or particleboard.

Townhouses or Condominiums

Dwelling unit, generally having two or more floors and attached to other similar units via party walls.
Town houses are often used in planned unit developments and condominium developments, which provide for clustered or attached housing and common open space.
When it comes to defining area separation–type walls and how they are to be constructed in townhouse and apartment applications, all roads lead through the national model building codes.

And whether the codes define a wall system as a “fire wall,” “party wall,” “area separation wall,” or “townhouse separation wall,” it must meet the same requirements. Namely, it must be a wall that:

• Is continuous from the foundation to the underside of the protected roof sheathing or continues through the roof to form a parapet, and;
• Is designed to allow for collapse of the construction on the side of the wall exposed to fire without collapse of the separation wall.

Gypsum board area separation walls must be installed using the components and installation methods described in the corresponding fire test or listing.

• Gypsum board area separation walls can be constructed with or without a parapet.

Building codes usually allow builders to eliminate parapets in townhouse construction if the proper combination of the following conditions is met:

• The roof is covered with a code-defined minimum (usually Class C) roofing material and;
• The roof decking or sheathing is constructed with noncombustible material, or approved fire-retardant–treated wood, for a minimum distance of four feet on each side of the firewall or;
• A layer of 5/8-inch-thick type X gypsum board is installed immediately beneath the roof sheathing for a distance of at least 4 feet on either side of the townhouse separation wall.

Hope this helps a little.

[Mark Thorman]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Mark, it appears that since it has been established that this is a condo, firestopping and draftstopping all become part of the assembly that is required by code for a true rated wall separation between the units.
What is pictured above is not.

Here we are still working off the UBC and the blueprints for condos and townhomes here refer to these walls as firestops and are built as such. I am not aware of the code you quoted, please enlighten me, and I admit I am not up on the IRC codes. Codes change, some get adobted, some not. The key is to know the best you can the history of code changes in your area.

www.MauiHomeInspections.com

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Mark, some of my statements are from the IBC and IRC, and definitions and requirements vary from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction. And from what I found, the State of Hawaii has very few Building Codes established other than the Model Energy Code or IECC.
I also found this.
Proposed Building Code Rules

State Building Code
State Electrical Code
State Fire Code
State Energy Conservation Code
State Plumbing Code
State Residential Code

It appears there are a lot of fragmented building requirements which currently exist between counties. The state building code would include the latest fire code as adopted by the State Fire Council, the latest edition of the International Building Code, the latest edition of the Uniform Plumbing Code.
So I guess, you can build anyway you want and no one will care.

[Mark Thorman]

Originally Posted by mcyr

It appears there are a lot of fragmented building requirements which currently exist between counties.

Yes, each county, or island, decides the code they want to use. Just a heads up those links you provided went nowhere.
Thanks

www.MauiHomeInspections.com

[Marcel R. Cyr]

The links only work on their site Mark.
Try this one.

http://hawaii.gov/dags/bcc/comments

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Jeffrey -


My question is have you ever built OR are you just new and limited in your inspection experience; OR are you just used to 1 area of the country AND since your area does things 1 way - you ASSUME everyone else does too.

Dan,
I am not new to construction or the HI industry by any means... I have been building since 1978.... am a licensed GC (commercial and residential) in NC as well as licensed (and practicing) HI since the 90's.... and yes, I have also built townhomes and condos.... so I am very familiar with the fire stopping requirements.

You are technically correct about parapets, the principle being that whatever means is employed it must reduce the potential of a fire from jumping from one dwelling to another. My introduction about parapets was simply show that simply looking at a 2x4 against a firewall does not in and of itself make it a deficiency....... as Marcel as pointed out, there are various methods in controlling fire spread.

My issue with Buck is that as one who proclaims to be a CMI, he constantly is posting crap which exposes the CMI program for what it truly is..... an advertising gimmick.......that is not to say that everyone that has paid to be in this program is as incompetent as Buck....... but it does make it a joke. While I am sure my statements may piss off some CMI's, which I really dont care about, I am also sure that there are plenty who have thought to themselves the same things but never voiced it openly........ being that I truly care about NACHI, I make no bones about pointing out something that is doing nothing but harming same.

As long as Buck wants to play his little ego game about "I know what I am going to write but what you....blah,blah" then don't expect any thing different in my responses.

I asked some pretty simple questions and he has not answered any of them.........obviously because he doesn't know what he is doing or what to look for which is why he deceptively uses the forum to try to figure out what to put on his report without coming across that his CMI designation is a joke. If have read my posts in regards to home inspections then you will know that I am very respectful in how I answer sincere questions.


warm regards

Jeff

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Dan, you got to admit the "warm regards' comment was a nice touch in Jeff's post. Now can't we all just get along.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by jbraun

Dan, you got to admit the "warm regards' comment was a nice touch in Jeff's post. Now can't we all just get along.

Why is it that the phrase "can't we all just get along" brings up the insincerity of the media's favorite thug.....Rodney King incident......convicted robber and drunk who tried to be the crap of a police officer and got his arse handed to him............... me thinketh warm regards is so much more.......believable.

[Bruce M. Graham]

From yesterdays, not the lack of tape and no mud on the fasteners.