Foundation Crack How to report????

[Peter C. Russell]

Marcel, I, like you have been in the trenches long enough to know that a crack like that usually indicates lateral pressure at the point on the vertical crack which indicates failure. As for the inspection process immediate evaluation should be completed by an engineer.

I have accompanied a structural engineer on many foundation inspections and a 1/2 crack like that would not be good news.... here in the northeast that is!!!!!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by prussell

Marcel, I, like you have been in the trenches long enough to know that a crack like that usually indicates lateral pressure at the point on the vertical crack which indicates failure. As for the inspection process immediate evaluation should be completed by an engineer.

I have accompanied a structural engineer on many foundation inspections and a 1/2 crack like that would not be good news.... here in the northeast that is!!!!!

That is exactly my point Peter and thanks for expressing it a little better than I can.

One more point of interest is the be able to express to some of our new Inspectors coming in on how to recognize what is a failure and what is not.

True, in all instances, if you are not sure, recommend a structural Engineer for an evaluation.
But, don't make a mistake of recommending and it is a shrinkage crack.

Learn how to identify and differentiate the difference between failure, shrinkage and control cracking. Their are may books out their and a whole lot of foundation contractors you could also talk too.

Just trying to help everyone.

Marcel

[Peter C. Russell]

Good point on how to tell the difference which is not always our job and as usual you are helpful, from all our talks you probably have more experience on concrete and foundations than anyone else on this board.

[Joe Farsetta]

Marcel,

Around these parts, there are no control joints in poured-in-place concrete foundations. So when you refer to a control crack, I have never seen one in a residential setting.

Where lateral displacement is a factor, of course the fondation is in trouble; it is significant. But, if you were to come up with an EVALUATION of the severity of the crack in a state which defines the practice as professional engineering, you'd be in trouble. Here in NY, you'd likely lose your HI license.

When licensing finally hits home, we had all better truly evaluate what we say during the course of inspecting. There is a line which exists between what a home inspection is, and what professional engneering is.

For instance, statng that an AC system is inadequately sized is clearly professional engineering. Any time one utilizes engineering principals and data to render an opinion or remedy during the course of a home inspection, that inspector has likely crossed the line.

Is the crack in question problematic? You bet. Why? It is greater than 1/4" wide and shows signs of lateral displacement. Has the foundation failed, I cant say and neither can you. We can only refer the matter to a PE for further evaluation.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Recommend evaluation by a foundation contractor with remedy as necessary.

Foundation contractors here employ engineers.
As foundations here are engineered.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

This is what I said earlier in my first post.

and an Engineer will be required to evaluate the repairs and establish cause, before remedial repairs are anticipated.

[quote=jfarsetta]Marcel,

Around these parts, there are no control joints there should be, they are very easy to install and effective in poured-in-place concrete foundations. So when you refer to a control crack, I have never seen one in a residential setting.Actually, not too many here either

Where lateral displacement is a factor, of course the fondation is in trouble; it is significant. But, if you were to come up with an EVALUATION of the severity of the crack in a state which defines the practice as professional engineering, you'd be in trouble.My evaluations are for my purpose of understanding what went wrong only, my report would only show a recommendation for engineers review Here in NY, you'd likely lose your HI license.

When licensing finally hits home, we had all better truly evaluate what we say during the course of inspecting.I do There is a line which exists between what a home inspection is, I know that and what professional engneering is.

Is the crack in question problematic? You bet. Why? It is greater than 1/4" wide and shows signs of lateral displacement. Has the foundation failed, I cant say and neither can you.Yes I can and that is only because of my 40 years of being a foundation contractor for all the buildings I have built and relation with structural engineers over the years. We can only refer the matter to a PE for further evaluation.which is what I do when under the hat of an HI.[/quote]

I would think that a closer study of the ACI documents would help anyone on this subject.

The biggest problem with residential foundations for basement that I see, is that they are continuously done to the minimum standard of the IRC.
Commercial arena will usually have an engineered system.

Not all States provide uniformity in controlling the engineering in residential.

Understanding what is a control joint, wild shrinkage cracking and failures is something I understand from experience, but my recommendations are the same as everyone else. Recommend a structural engineer which is what I said early on.

Thank you

Marcel

[Joe Farsetta]

Then we are in violent agreement

BTW... I'm not busting your chops. You know and I know the foundation is in trouble. We just cant really say what we know to be true.

[john bubber]

Originally Posted by lolsen

I inspected this 60 year old home and found this crack in the foundation. It ran from top to bottom, no displacement, and max width of 1/2 inch. The foundation juts out here as well (to the right of the crack).

As a newer inspector I never ran across this and was wondering how to report this.

Attachment 18888

Attachment 18889

Thanks
Lawrence Olsen
Universal Inspections

Mr Larry,

what`s on the outside of this area/crack? Is there a porch...nothing?


and is there any crack on opposite wall,directly across from this wall?

[relliott]

Poor Larry .
I hope his report is not due yet since his original question has not yet been answered.
The closest we came was when Joe said PV software has good verbage.
How about something like this
Foundation cracks of this type and location can and often are a cause for concern.
This type of defect should be looked at by a professional engineer when over a 1/4 inch in width.
Straight to summery of defects

[Peter Doane]

Here you go Lawrence.... off the cuff.

There are visible cracks in the foundation that need further evaluation by a qualified trades person for determination, evaluation and or corrective repair if required. Since this inspection is visual in nature, it is always recommended that any foundation cracks observed be further evaluated to prevent damage and to insure the integrity of the foundation is kept in tact. The type of crack may ultimately not represent a concern to the integrity of the foundation but we recommend further specialist review for determination of cause and repair options as structural engineers consider any foundation cracks over 1/8th of an inch significant.

You did your job. Informed your clients of a potential costly issue.

[relliott]

Peter is long winded

[Peter Doane]

Originally Posted by relliott

Peter is long winded

Like I said,.. it was 'off the cuff' so to speak.... as I was trying to run out the door. Hopefully no english teachers out there,... I think he gets the gist of how his report could be worded, not verbatim (HOPEFULLY) as I was not there to see all issues that could be conducive to the foundation issues i.e. drainage, grading... etc.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

I think that the Acadian French in me failed to point out as to what is the problem.

Here it is:

The god darn concrete wall has failed and the darn contractor that built it is since gone and they did not even install re-bar in the corner.

I would strongly suggest that an Engineer be employed to recommend remedial repairs. At that point will such a Foundation Contractor be notified and advised as to the proper corrective measures and an estimate to the repairs recommended by the said Engineer.

Marcel
</IMG></IMG></IMG>

[relliott]

Peter I was just messing with you.
Marcel can you be 100 percent sure the horizontal rebar is missing?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by relliott

Poor Larry .
I hope his report is not due yet since his original question has not yet been answered.
The closest we came was when Joe said PV software has good verbage.
How about something like this
Foundation cracks of this type and location can and often are a cause for concern.
This type of defect should be looked at by a professional engineer when over a 1/4 inch in width.
Straight to summery of defects

Bob,

Around here, the proper verbiage is "state licensed and insured structural engineer".

Different areas, different requirements.