Good Termite Damage disclaimer

[Sean Fogarty]

Had an older home where termite damage was visible. The termites were treated in the past but the damage is still evident. No obvious signs of major damage but I am not taking the time to poke every spot either. Little monsters can go anywhere.

Does anyone have a good disclaimer for non-visible damage to framing?

[James H. Bushart]

In my PIA and signed by the client prior to the inspection ... "The Inspection by Inspection Company will be performed in accordance with the Standards of Practice of the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors (iNACHI). A copy of this Standard of Practice has been made available for viewing at http://www.missourihomeinspect.com/residential-inspection-applied-standard prior to the inspection."

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jbushart

In my PIA and signed by the client prior to the inspection ... "The Inspection by Inspection Company will be performed in accordance with the Standards of Practice of the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors (iNACHI). A copy of this Standard of Practice has been made available for viewing at http://www.missourihomeinspect.com/residential-inspection-applied-standard prior to the inspection."

Well thank you Jim.
But what I meant was a comment to disclaim or cover the fact that you are not going to spend the next 3 hours probing every area of the basment floor to see if termites had eaten the center out of a beam.

Got any of those??

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Npma-33

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jhagarty

Npma-33

Joe, why do I need this form?

I just want to finish the report for the inspection I did. The termite inspection was done 2 days ago.

Do you have a general comment you use for visible damage?

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Just note that an "Active" condition of termites present evidenced by mud tunneling in the location where you found it.

I do not reference what I could not see or speculate on what may be present and/or concealed.

The NPMA-33 form covers all the limitations better than a report disclaimer.

[James H. Bushart]

How do you report the condition of unaccessible and concealed spaces when there is no termite damage visible to to you?

If it is excluded from the inspection by your agreement, why do you feel it is necessary to address it in your report ... beyond what you see? Anything else is a guess.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jbushart

How do you report the condition of unaccessible and concealed spaces when there is no termite damage visible to to you?

If it is excluded from the inspection by your agreement, why do you feel it is necessary to address it in your report ... beyond what you see? Anything else is a guess.

Let me rephrase it then.

No active termites, checked 2 days ago, termites originally treated in 04

What would you (Jim) put in your home inspection report? We know the termites are dead but the signs still remain. What would you document in this particular instance?

[Christopher Currins]

Evidence of past or present insect damage; suggest evaluation by qualified technician

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Let me rephrase it then.

No active termites, checked 2 days ago, termites originally treated in 04

What would you (Jim) put in your home inspection report? We know the termites are dead but the signs still remain. What would you document in this particular instance?

I would describe the damage in the areas that I found it. I would make no reference to the "activity" of termites ... one way or the other. I would advise my client that about 80% of the areas in which additional termite damage could exist was not visible and/or accessible to me and is not included in my report.

I would remind my client that, as per our agreement, the report reflects only the material defects that were visible to me at the time of the inspection and does not include any damage to the home that was not observed by me at the time of the inspection.

Verbally (face-to-face or by phone) I might elaborate on this to say that there is no way that I can know or report on the conditions of the ceiing joists that are covered with insulation, the framing behind the drywall, the sheathing behind the siding, and any other portion of the structure that could also be damaged. It could be absent of any damage ... it could be minimally damaged ... or it could be significantly damaged. I can only report what I see.

That is what I do when I have not been paid for a termite inspection. When I do a termite inspection, I simply use the NPMA 33.

The bottom line is --- my report refers to my agreement to conduct the inspection in accordance with the SOP.

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Let me rephrase it then.

No active termites, checked 2 days ago, termites originally treated in 04

What would you (Jim) put in your home inspection report? We know the termites are dead but the signs still remain. What would you document in this particular instance?

Here in Florida, unless you are licensed to perform WDO inspections, you can't even talk about termites. A home inspector got fined for that recently.
I would also caution you to avoid making determinations with regards to live infestations being present or not.

What I would write in my report would be something along the lines of:
There was damage observed to various areas of the (whatever area they were observed in) which may be consistent with some type of inspect infestation, possibly termites. It is recommended that a proper WDO or whatever you call it where you are located, be performed by (whoever is licensed to do the inspection), and any repairs/treatments be performed, prior to purchase.

Furthermore, it is recommended that a structural engineer be called to evaluate the entire structure,and make any recommendations and include repair costs, prior to purchase.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by evandeven

Here in Florida, unless you are licensed to perform WDO inspections, you can't even talk about termites. A home inspector got fined for that recently.
I would also caution you to avoid making determinations with regards to live infestations being present or not.

What I would write in my report would be something along the lines of:
There was damage observed to various areas of the (whatever area they were observed in) which may be consistent with some type of inspect infestation, possibly termites. It is recommended that a proper WDO or whatever you call it where you are located, be performed by (whoever is licensed to do the inspection), and any repairs/treatments be performed, prior to purchase.

Furthermore, it is recommended that a structural engineer be called to evaluate the entire structure,and make any recommendations and include repair costs, prior to purchase.

Are you serious? Come on guys really.

Once again let me go over this again.

The house had termites in 04.
It was inspected, treated and documented by a pest company.
The owner was aware of it, the buyer was aware of it.

Besides the fact we all were aware it was termites, that has nothing to do with a disclaimer for visible damage.

Sorry Eric but calling for a structural engineer is obsurd. For what?

So once again let me simplify this for everyone.

No termites (or insects)

Minor visible damage in the basment

The house is 80 years old and like many around here they all have some signs of insect or pest damage.

Do anyone have a blanket statement they use when exisitng visible damage is minimal but hidden or unseen damage could be found later in reguards to structural damage and not termites.

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Are you serious? Come on guys really.

Once again let me go over this again.

The house had termites in 04.
It was inspected, treated and documented by a pest company.
The owner was aware of it, the buyer was aware of it.

Besides the fact we all were aware it was termites, that has nothing to do with a disclaimer for visible damage.

Sorry Eric but calling for a structural engineer is obsurd. For what?

So once again let me simplify this for everyone.

No termites (or insects)

Minor visible damage in the basment

The house is 80 years old and like many around here they all have some signs of insect or pest damage.

Do anyone have a blanket statement they use when exisitng visible damage is minimal but hidden or unseen damage could be found later in reguards to structural damage and not termites.

Yes, I am serious. When your client decides to repair the "minimal damage" and finds out half the home has to be rebuilt.......

I have seen it happen countless times with Subterranean termites.

Would you consider the picture below "minor damage"?
I'll wait for your answer before I tell you how much it would have cost to fix this. A hint is my Client didn't buy the home after getting the estimates from the engineer.

To answer what I think you are asking, XYZ Inspection company will not be held responsible for any damages financially or otherwise from any pest infestation, past present or future.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Are you serious? Come on guys really.

Once again let me go over this again.

The house had termites in 04.
It was inspected, treated and documented by a pest company.
The owner was aware of it, the buyer was aware of it.

Besides the fact we all were aware it was termites, that has nothing to do with a disclaimer for visible damage.

Sorry Eric but calling for a structural engineer is obsurd. For what?

So once again let me simplify this for everyone.

No termites (or insects)

Minor visible damage in the basment

The house is 80 years old and like many around here they all have some signs of insect or pest damage.

Do anyone have a blanket statement they use when exisitng visible damage is minimal but hidden or unseen damage could be found later in reguards to structural damage and not termites.

Once again ....

The present existence (or not) of termites is not within the scope of a home inspection, in most states requires a special license, and should not be included in your report.

The damage that you see can and should be included in your report. You cannot "disclaim" damage that you can see. You report the damage that you can see and describe it to your client.

Your SOP ... referred to and agreed to in advance of the inspection by your client ... already addresses ("disclaims", if you will) any and all hidden and concealed defects. This includes the possibly destroyed ceiling joists that are hidden by insulation, framing behind the drywall, sheathing behind the siding, and every other place where hidden and concealed defects can exist. You may remind your client of this in your report.

Your client needs to fully understand that you are reporting ... not "disclaiming" ... that you have no way of determining the extent of the damage without disassembling the home. Your report does not address the hidden and concealed defects and you don't know if they exist or not.

I don't understand what is so difficult about this.

How do you "disclaim" the possibility of termite damage inside the walls when you did NOT find a mud tunnel? It's all the same thing and covered by the PIA that contains a signed agreement to inspect in accordance with the SOP.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by evandeven

Yes, I am serious. When your client decides to repair the "minimal damage" and finds out half the home has to be rebuilt.......

I have seen it happen countless times with Subterranean termites.

Would you consider the picture below "minor damage"?
I'll wait for your answer before I tell you how much it would have cost to fix this. A hint is my Client didn't buy the home after getting the estimates from the engineer.

To answer what I think you are asking, XYZ Inspection company will not be held responsible for any damages financially or otherwise from any pest infestation, past present or future.

Canned comment. Thats all I was asking for. NO discussion, no debates.

Your photo is exactly why I was looking for a good canned comment. Same with the home I looked at yesterday. Mine was only a couple of places.

I understand they can damage what you dont see, which is why I asked for the statement to begin with. If you have one you use regualarly then that great, if not then that's OK

I came up with one already so Im good now.