Header or Footer or Knee-er?

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Those top cripples... they were supposed to be bottom cripples. Dumb framers installed it upside down. That's a sill assembly with a header which was supposed to be installed against the top plate. Framers typically cut the 2 trimmers to fit between the bottom of the header and the top of the sill.

[msylvester]

IT IS NOT A HEADDER....

It's a built in bench the "header" is for nailing purposes. That's my guess.

[klott]

I tend to agree with Kenton, I think it was supposed to be a recess for the entertainment center or perhaps a recessed Bookcase, because it is in the Greatroom. Maybe one day, the owner will return my voicemails, and I can ask him.

[jbettencourt]

I still stick with entertainment unit because I don't think you would install an electrical receptacle in a bookcase.

[klott]

I once built a bookcase with recessed lighting, but it was not for a midget.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

[quote=msylvester]IT IS NOT A HEADDER....

quote]

Definitely not!! It's a lintel.

lin·tel: a horizontal architectural member spanning and usually carrying the load above an opening

[lintel illustration]

[Richard A. Hetzel]

Well, that's a dictionary definition written by someone who doesn't know construction. A lintel carries masonry over an opening, but is not structural other than that one single function. A header exists in framing, and carries loads over an opening to posts on the sides, and can be vitally structural. A window in a brick wall, for example, would have a lintel and a header, each performing different functions.

If one removes a lintel, a small amount of the masonry would fall. If one removes a header, there could be anything up to a catastrophic failure of the structure.

It doesn't matter whether the member is seven feet off the floor or eighteen inches off the floor, if it spans an opening in the framing, it's a header.

I still cannot imagine the purpose of the pictured assembly...the more work that gets done on it, the odder it seems.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by Richard A. Hetzel

Well, that's a dictionary definition written by someone who doesn't know construction. A lintel carries masonry over an opening, but is not structural other than that one single function. A header exists in framing, and carries loads over an opening to posts on the sides, and can be vitally structural. A window in a brick wall, for example, would have a lintel and a header, each performing different functions.

If one removes a lintel, a small amount of the masonry would fall. If one removes a header, there could be anything up to a catastrophic failure of the structure.

Richard:

It looks like the terms have merged through improper usage since I learned them. From the Canada Mortgage & Housing text titled Canadian Wood House Construction:

Header: A wood member at right angles to a series of joists or rafters at which the joists or rafters terminate. When used at openings in the floor or roof system, the header supports the joists or rafters and acts as a beam.

Lintels: A horizontal structural member (beam) that supports the load over an opening such as a door or a window.

Most online definitions I found use the two interchangeably now......when will a joist or a rafter simply become a stud?

By some of the consultations / litigations that I have done recently on upscale homes starting around $500,000 upwards (including designs by award winning architects), the level of construction knowledge continues to flounder and is close to sinking altogether!!!

[Richard A. Hetzel]

Good and sad point. I'm an old codger in the architectural field, and I was taught stuff throughout my career by other architects, who brought experience from many different kinds of offices. None of what I'm talking about was found in books. This source of knowledge, unfortunately, is dying or deceased, and none of it is taught in schools. Also, the advent of the computer has essentially allowed architects to operate with their brains in neutral, to the great detriment of the building profession. I see the most amazing and frightening things in plans which are prepared by computer...it is as though no one thinks...they think the machine will think for them. Thus the huge amounts of litigation you refer to...is anyone surprised, and is the architectural profession, and its educational wing, trying to do anything about it?

[Gary Bottomley]

Originally Posted by Richard A. Hetzel

Good and sad point. I'm an old codger in the architectural field, and I was taught stuff throughout my career by other architects, who brought experience from many different kinds of offices. None of what I'm talking about was found in books. This source of knowledge, unfortunately, is dying or deceased, and none of it is taught in schools. Also, the advent of the computer has essentially allowed architects to operate with their brains in neutral, to the great detriment of the building profession. I see the most amazing and frightening things in plans which are prepared by computer...it is as though no one thinks...they think the machine will think for them. Thus the huge amounts of litigation you refer to...is anyone surprised, and is the architectural profession, and its educational wing, trying to do anything about it?

Just ran across this old post without a final answer so, Ken, if you are out there, was there a reason for the header located here and was it truly a header, intending to transfer loads across the 5' opening?
Also, it sounded like you were just doing a draw inspection for the bank, just noting that a certain percentage of the line item has been performed, without the necessity or responsibility to comment on the acceptability of the work? (Is that the way these type of inspections usually work? Anyone?)
Richard:
As a semi-retired Architect with extensive experience in commercial construction management, I have also seen the effects of the computer drawing process not giving a good feeling for the building they are creating. Perhaps the more recent evolution of the 3D and Building Information modeling software, this will improve. But, since I have been essentially forced out of that market by the Michigan economy and the current corporate mindset that is more interested in only people that can "talk the talk" as opposed to "walk the walk", I am no longer involved in that market. But, Home Inspections are at least an alternative form of supplemental income, more relevant to my background than a greater at Walmart but, not sure if the hourly wage is any better!!
Sorry about bringing back up a really old post and continuing the drifting of the original subject matter.

[KEVIN WOOD]

I am leaning towards the wrong end up and a large window was to be placed at the top for light penetration deeper into the space. Looks like someone knows allot about light requirements and little about framing.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by gbottomley

Just ran across this old post without a final answer so, Ken, if you are out there,...

Not to be a bummer, but Kenn has passed away ...

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f13/think...ed-away-56252/

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jjonas

Not to be a bummer, but Kenn has passed away ...

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f13/think...ed-away-56252/

Hard to believe that was less than 5 months ago.
Must admit I thought he was faking it half the time and was terribly upset with myself that he was for real.

Goes back to the time he was waiting for an ambulance and was still posting.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

I kind of miss the guy, you know that!

[Gary Bottomley]

Originally Posted by jjonas

Not to be a bummer, but Kenn has passed away ...

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f13/think...ed-away-56252/

Wow, sorry to hear that, sounds like he was good man and contributor. I had no idea, sorry to hear that he is gone and let's leave the rest of my post go also in respect to Kenn.