Inadequate garage support post?

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Bet you sody pop joe thats a steel or aluminum beam hidden under what you see. I also bet it's embedded deep in the ground hopefully sitting on a footer.

http://www.ci.broomfield.co.us/building/patio04.pdf

With all due respect... and I am trying to learn from this, also...

Billy,
No way in heck!!! take a closer look at the photos.

Richard H.,
When was the last time you observed a 9x9 carport? The average "small car" is close to 12ft long. Judging by various visible indicators, that carport is closer to 10x16. Using your (questionable) equation, that equates to 4800 lbs.

The following links are from a quick search online... this manufacturer recommends a design load of 2600lbs for a solid core 4x4... we have here a solid core "turned" 4x4... closer to a 3x3...

http://www.coxwood.com/woodproducts_..._columns.shtml

http://www.coxwood.com/pdf/Column_Design_Loads.pdf

Nice try... but try again...

[Bruce A. King]

Richard figured it as 18 x 18, that gives a tributary load of 9 feet on each side, 9 feet of each side are supported by the house (half the distance).

Look at the age of the house, that is how they did things then, I would report this as a potential issue for sure.

Decks have even higher potential loading so no comparison there unless you specify sizes and design issues for the comparison.

How many of you have seen a bulldozer knock one of those posts out during a demolition? The one I saw was very similar the dozer whacked it away and the roof only sagged about 6 inches. If left alone it would have been sagging more the next day but there is some overkill built into houses.

[tsaunders]

My guess is that the post performs as it is intended to, (hold up the roof)
Looks like a newer roof on a older home, it probably has been doing its job for quite a while.
Did you notice any sign of sag in the beam to indicate that it was not capable of carrying the load
I would be more concerned about the block the post is sitting on, is it a solid concrete masonry unit, or a solid cinder block (not good, they deteriorate) or is a hollow 4 on its side?

Have a great day
Tim

[Richard A. Hetzel]

A turned post may be made of a higher quality wood than plain old framing lumber, so comparison to a 4x4 may be irrelevant, and thank you, Mr. King, for explaining how loads are distributed, for those who were trying to learn. Absent clear evidence to the contrary, I stand by my opinion, which comes from almost 50 years in residential architecture, including successful structural design on literally hundreds of projects. I cannot see why an inspector would even make an issue of such a condition, but maybe I can make some cash writing an opinion letter on behalf of the seller to assuage a worried buyer, as I've done in dozens of cases over the years.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Bet you sody pop joe thats a steel or aluminum beam hidden under what you see. I also bet it's embedded deep in the ground hopefully sitting on a footer.

You owe me a 'coke'. I went back to the house this afternoon to pick up the radon test kits. Definitely wood (you'll see in the photo where I carved on it). Sitting on a metal plate that isn't attached to anything as far as I can tell.

Carport size is 13 x 20.

Here's another view of the side of the home. Seems like common sense to me: the post is not substantial. A center post would be a good idea also (why wait till it sags?).

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by bking

...Look at the age of the house, that is how they did things then, I would report this as a potential issue for sure....

The house was built in the 70's. That post is probably not original--it has a metal plate under it and I don't think they did that 30+ years ago. Vinyl siding with metal trim was added to the gable recently--the post was probably added then.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Joe,
Thanks for adding the extra pictures. That is actually how I envisioned the design of the structure. Okay, I was off a small bit on the dimensions, but I think you got my point.

Bruce and Richard,
Thanks for your info, and opinions. As I said earlier, I am just trying to understand and further my knowledge. I never claimed to be an expert. Especially with the limited views of the photos supplied. I look for every opppourtunity to learn, whenever something out of the ordinary rears it's head.

Jeff

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jjonas

I look for every opportunity to learn, whenever something out of the ordinary rears it's head.

That's what's so wonderful about this message board. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't been glued to it for the past 4 years. The helpful input of others has been invaluable to me.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

You owe me a 'coke'. I went back to the house this afternoon to pick up the radon test kits. Definitely wood (you'll see in the photo where I carved on it). Sitting on a metal plate that isn't attached to anything as far as I can tell.

Carport size is 13 x 20.

Here's another view of the side of the home. Seems like common sense to me: the post is not substantial. A center post would be a good idea also (why wait till it sags?).


Attachment 30619 Attachment 30620

I never knew Radon kits went on the roof.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by relliott

I never knew Radon kits went on the roof.

The radon levels were acceptable.

[Richard A. Hetzel]

A center post would be a good idea also (why wait till it sags?)

If it's designed properly, why would it sag? And if it were going to sag, it would have done so long before now. There is no load on what appears to be a beam along the side...things need load on them in order to sag. The beam across the entrance carries half the load of the roof, and half of that is carried by that poor little post that you guys keep insulting.

Now that the dimensions are known, the load on that post is now less than 2000 pounds.

Perhaps the steel plate that it sits on is anchored into the masonry below, but then, what is the connection between the post and the steel plate? There should be one to resist uplift from high winds.

Oh, now I've seen the additional photos...that looks like a cast aluminum post base that it sits on. They are as old as the hills, and more recent construction would more likely have used a galvanized post base. Those cast aluminum bases usually had an anchor bolt in the center to anchor it into masonry, but this one appears to be sitting on either gravel or asphalt. Probably the weight of the roof would keep the post from misbehaving, except maybe in a hurricane.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Whether it's sufficient to carry the load is not something a home inspector is qualified to determine unless they've been trained to perform the proper calculation.

Posts are in compression and can often carry a suprising amount of weight. Richard has the experience to know his stuff.

Still, I'd recommend a structural engineer because I'm not qualified to perform the calculation and it looks scary. The client is going to ask if it's OK and I'm going to say "I don't know".

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Richard, isn't it funny that somebody put 4 of the same types of post at the front porch? I guess they didn't know a broom handle was all that is necessary.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by Richard A. Hetzel

And if it were going to sag, it would have done so long before now.

You act like you know how long the post has been in place. I doubt it is original.

[Richard A. Hetzel]

Richard, isn't it funny that somebody put 4 of the same types of post at the front porch? I guess they didn't know a broom handle was all that is necessary.

Do you know how little a load those porch posts are carrying? Broomsticks would be overkill. =)