Joist blocking

[jwortham1]

Am I missing something here?

Shouldn't these joists be blocked at the ends if they are not attached to the adjacent joist to prevent them from rotating laterally?

[Claude Lawrenson]

Up here in Canada - this can be resolved by cross-bridging at third points or near mid-span? Solid blocking could also be used. Unless you see this as a code issue in your area.

[David P. Valley]

Bridging and blockings are usually installed in center spans when the underside is not getting a drywall ceiling.

These joists should be attached to each other with hardware and toe-nailed to the beam below it. With the spacing in your pic, the joists don't appear to be attached to each other.

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Attachment 9311

[whandley]

Hey David, what do you think about this framing alteration? New, never lived in 4500'sf, wood frame/stucco structure. Found this added/altered roof framing configuration in one of the two attics. Appears the material was scabbed in after original construction. Don't know why painted material was used. I first thought maybe prior fire damage during original rough framing.

Thoughts?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by whandley

Hey David, what do you think about this framing alteration? New, never lived in 4500'sf, wood frame/stucco structure. Found this added/altered roof framing configuration in one of the two attics. Appears the material was scabbed in after original construction. Don't know why painted material was used. I first thought maybe prior fire damage during original rough framing.

Thoughts?

Harry O travels a lot I guess.

Must have dismanteled old swing sets or barricads to get the lumbe and never pounded a nail in his life.

That is unbelievable.
Hate to see what everything else looks like.

Marcel

[tdietrich1]

I know this isn't a code forum, and we all aren't code enforcement officers, but understanding where the building codes stand, helps me.

2006 IRC R502.7.1 "Bridging" Summery, not a concern unless the joist exceed a nominal 2x12.

Are these bigger than 2 by 12's?

tom

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by whandley

Hey David, what do you think about this framing alteration? New, never lived in 4500'sf, wood frame/stucco structure. Found this added/altered roof framing configuration in one of the two attics. Appears the material was scabbed in after original construction. Don't know why painted material was used. I first thought maybe prior fire damage during original rough framing.

Thoughts?

You've got to be shi+ting me. Who the hell (in their right state of mind) is going to consider this rafter install legit?

I can't believe they went and stole that highway fencing and tried to use it to support a roofing load.

[David P. Valley]

I posted the wrong pic. This pic illustrates the support on a steel beam.

"Click to Enlarge"
Attachment 9321

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by whandley

Hey David, what do you think about this framing alteration? New, never lived in 4500'sf, wood frame/stucco structure. Found this added/altered roof framing configuration in one of the two attics. Appears the material was scabbed in after original construction. Don't know why painted material was used. I first thought maybe prior fire damage during original rough framing.

Thoughts?

Will, judging from the quality of the top cuts and the nailing, the carpenter spent the money he was supposed to use to buy lumber on beer. Looks like his soberer buddy cut the bottoms of the overframe jacks.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by jwortham1

Am I missing something here?

Shouldn't these joists be blocked at the ends if they are not attached to the adjacent joist to prevent them from rotating laterally?

Yes Jeffrey, the joists should be blocked above the beam with solid blocking.

Anti-rotational devices can be installed in midspan, using either blocks or bridging (X-bracing), but they don't use midspans in many places any more. That's because they almost all SQUEAK and they aren't necessary.

[jwortham1]

Thanks guys.

I recommended they be blocked and after some time looking at framing guides and the like, I am confident that blocking is needed.

I appreciate the input.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by tdietrich1

2006 IRC R502.7.1 "Bridging" Summery, not a concern unless the joist exceed a nominal 2x12.

The IRC is a good "guide" for HI's. However, the provisions of R502.7.1 refer to larger joists (larger than 2x12 which is unusual) that need help keeping them from twisting between the end supports. Any required "bridging" is spaced no more than 8' apart.

However, it is considered good practice by many to install bridging/blocking between supports even for smaller joists about every 8' to 10' to help stiffen up a floor, even though it may not be required by codes.

All joists (not just ones larger than 2x12) need restraint at the ends ... which is usually done with a connection to the header/rim joist at the outside walls and solid blocking between the joists over interior walls/beams (per IRC R502.7)

JMO & 2-Nickels ...

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by kshepard

Will, judging from the quality of the top cuts and the nailing, the carpenter spent the money he was supposed to use to buy lumber on beer. Looks like his soberer buddy cut the bottoms of the overframe jacks.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Someone pocketed the money.
Wow! That's one of the most blatant things I've ever seen. Very cocky and they must consider that nobody is going to tag them for it.

[jbreazeale]

Dang, boys and girls, thet thar is one of thuh sorriest cuttin' n' nalen jobs ah ever seen. My Daddy and Granddaddy, master carpenters both, would roll over in their graves if they saw something like that. They wouldn't have let me get away with something like that on a chicken roost!

[homebild]

Rob O'Conner said:

"All joists (not just ones larger than 2x12) need restraint at the ends ... which is usually done with a connection to the header/rim joist at the outside walls and solid blocking between the joists over interior walls/beams (per IRC R502.7)"

According to what we have been instructed as IRC certfied Resdiential Code Inspectors by the ICC, The IRC R 502.7 does NOT require lateral support above girders overwhich floor joists intersect except in Seismic Zones D1 and D2.

The fact they are lapped and nailed to each other is enough to satisfy the lateral restraint at the ends requirement.

Hence, the joists in the original photo require no solid blocking between them unless the house is in an active earthquake zone or other local codes require it.

It is certainly a good idea to block joists over center bearing girders, and I am not arguing against the practice, but no requirement exists to block between floor joists when they terminate over a grider under the IRC except in high probablity earthquake zones... as the ICC explains it.