Rafter support

[Ralph A. Schade]

I'm getting some mixed opinions on this rafter support. It is loose and my thoughts are that it should be secured. A contractor has come in and told the agent that it doesn't. Opinions?

[Kenneth R. Brittain]

Is there a matching one on the other side?

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

The knee wall needs to be evaluated by a master carpenter.Attachment 46846
I think its over spanned and the knee wall was installed as a last minute effort to stiffen the rafter system.
Just my opinion.
I well wait for others.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Honestly, judging by the pics posted (which doesn't tell me enough info) that board serves no structural purpose. I suspect it was used to support and position the built on-site rafters until the roof sheathing was applied. JMHO.

[Christopher Currins]

What Jeff said. Looks temporary to me.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Sometimes when you have a small framing crew you use techniques which allow you to support or hold framing members until you are ready to fasten the other end; often the support you simply leave in place. It looks like a low pitch roof with a small rafter span....probably less than 14 ft. I see no issue based upon the limited view of your pictures.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

Sometimes when you have a small framing crew you use techniques which allow you to support or hold framing members until you are ready to fasten the other end; often the support you simply leave in place. It looks like a low pitch roof with a small rafter span....probably less than 14 ft. I see no issue based upon the limited view of your pictures.

Ditto

Plus.....the collar ties help break the span a bit by resisting horizontal movement if a rafter tends to sag.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Lets be hypothetical here.
Lets say the KNEE-WALLL LOOKING THINGY was put the to aid the crew in building the rafters.
The homes built now carrying live load and ( or dead )
Some heavy loads have moved that knee-wall looking thingy.. Hmmmmm.
Looks like the system was not functioning and there is a problem that needs now evaluation.
Collar ties to stop spreading and the rafters are not over 24" OC.
Yes need more photos, but I really think a load it being placed on that deck and movement is evident.
Suspect. Roof Rafter deficiency.
Recommend a engineer evaluate the roofing system.
Not saying to put it in a report.

PS love to see more photos

[Ralph A. Schade]

Originally Posted by kbrittain

Is there a matching one on the other side?

Probably, it's a semi-detached house

[Ralph A. Schade]

I agree that it may have been a temporary support and one contractor has said that that's what it is. Another wants $1500 to fix it as he considered it a structural support. My concerns were what had caused it to be loose enough to move it with two fingers. Conceivably, it could fall right off the purlines at either end. I wish I had taken more pics but I thought I had enough for "evidence" of loose rafter support.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by rschade

I agree that it may have been a temporary support and one contractor has said that that's what it is. Another wants $1500 to fix it as he considered it a structural support. My concerns were what had caused it to be loose enough to move it with two fingers. Conceivably, it could fall right off the purlines at either end. I wish I had taken more pics but I thought I had enough for "evidence" of loose rafter support.

That in and of itself indicates that it was intended as temporary. Someone just forgot to pull it out before the siding went on.

Tip: most inspectors do great with the close-up of defects, but an overview shot is needed in most cases to get a view of the bigger picture. Remember, a home works as a system, not just an individual component.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

I am just indicating as a home inspector your fiduciary responsibility is to the client.
If you do not know then protect them ( AND YOURSELF.)
It is evident everyone says more photos are needed.
All answering this thread have not been on site and rschade has come asking questions not being able to answer it himself.
To cover himself and the clients interest and not worry about being the ( deal killer ) an engineer or master Carpenter would evaluate a problem ( if there are any.)
Look at BC and the largest settlement agents a home inspector. I forget the association name off hand ( not ) but; It dealt with the exact same question we are discussing on this thread.
Rafters and roofing system. More the cost of repairing the system.
Home inspection is a profesional game to me.
Like playing bridge, when in doubt play your trump card. The engineer.
Thats just my take on it.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Originally Posted by rschade

I agree that it may have been a temporary support and one contractor has said that that's what it is. Another wants $1500 to fix it as he considered it a structural support. My concerns were what had caused it to be loose enough to move it with two fingers. Conceivably, it could fall right off the purlines at either end. I wish I had taken more pics but I thought I had enough for "evidence" of loose rafter support.

2 contractors with different opinions.
WOW that is as scarce as hens teeth.
You have just answered your own questions.
A expert is needed.
Contractors are generalists. ( my opinion )
They mostly sub( meaning they hire crews to work with them, and build new and rarely do repairs.( again my opinion ).
When one answers you they will charge xxx to fix the job there are not at ARMS LENGTH to the problem at hand.
Find an engineer and professionals that will aid you along your route of being a HI.
I am doing so now. I will not seek the opinion of GC.
I want a specific trades man that have done repair work. Problem solvers.
Best of luck. I have spent to much time here.

I

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by ryoung7

I am just indicating as a home inspector your fiduciary responsibility is to the client.
If you do not know then protect them ( AND YOURSELF.)
It is evident everyone says more photos are needed.
All answering this thread have not been on site and rschade has come asking questions not being able to answer it himself.
To cover himself and the clients interest and not worry about being the ( deal killer ) an engineer or master Carpenter would evaluate a problem ( if there are any.)
Look at BC and the largest settlement agents a home inspector. I forget the association name off hand ( not ) but; It dealt with the exact same question we are discussing on this thread.
Rafters and roofing system. More the cost of repairing the system.
Home inspection is a profesional game to me.
Like playing bridge, when in doubt play your trump card. The engineer.
Thats just my take on it.

Not exactly! It was a poor call in which there was rot of floor joists evident and settlement of a foundation. The inspector (architecturally trained) gave an estimate of costs of repairs rather than calling for further evaluation!!

In this case, the HI has not claimed to see any other defect/s or problems (sagging /uneven roof, buckled shingles, cracked rafters) associated with this apparently "temporary support". Therefore, it may be an overcall to refer out to a PE. We can carry codes tables and measuring tapes with us to determine that the attic framing here met the codes.

The more HI's have to refer out to others for evaluation and not just estimates for repairs/upgrades, the more folks will wonder if we are really properly trained for this job!

[Randy L. Mayo, PE]

Ralph

From your first picture I see in the background several rafters have an individual vertical support attached. I appears there is a partition wall under those vertical supports up to the point where this beam starts. It indicates to me the room under this beam is an open area with no partition walls to brace to so this beam was installed to span this open area. Assuming the rafter spans and/or the roof loads require these rafters to have an intermediate support the problem is in the poor method of securing the rafters to the beam. In the picture below their method of attachment will cause the beam to rotate and pull out the nails as shown in your picture. The proper method of attachment would be to bevel the edge of the beam so full contact with the rafter can be made and add a 2x4 to prevent rotation.