rafters and conventional framing

[Ray Delgado]

hi everyone, this is my first post - i hope you all find it relevant and can help out a bit.

im trying to design a garage in los angeles county for a buddy. its a very simple 22'x24' garage, however i need to keep it conventionally framed for my friend to build it, and he doesnt want to use an engineer.

i find it interesting because it seems to be typical type V stuff - but the way he wants to build it is not in the handout. the wants to build it a little differently than the LARUCP typical type V handout (the 7 page one).

the attached image shows what he wants sketched next to a clip of the standard detail. is it possible to build it the way it is sketched without using an engineer?

...the other possibility is that he would like to do a scissor truss - can that be done without an engineer?

[David P. Valley]

When building or revising plans of any structure, you should definitely get the stamp of a qualified structural engineer.

[dfogleman]

Simply done, buy manufactured trusses...there are places to save money and the structure is not one of them.

[Peter C. Russell]

Your local lumber yard should be able to help you with any design changes before the material gets ordered, then check with code enforcement to see if it complies

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Ray Delgado

hi everyone, this is my first post - i hope you all find it relevant and can help out a bit.

im trying to design a garage in los angeles county for a buddy. its a very simple 22'x24' garage, however i need to keep it conventionally framed for my friend to build it, and he doesnt want to use an engineer.

i find it interesting because it seems to be typical type V stuff - but the way he wants to build it is not in the handout. the wants to build it a little differently than the LARUCP typical type V handout (the 7 page one).

the attached image shows what he wants sketched next to a clip of the standard detail. is it possible to build it the way it is sketched without using an engineer?

...the other possibility is that he would like to do a scissor truss - can that be done without an engineer?

Ray, It really does not make sence to tackle something of the caliber when you can buy Manufactured and Engineered Trusses for cheaper than the cost of the material required to do the job on site.
The engineering is free with your order of Manufactured Trusses.
JMO

Marcel

[Ray Delgado]

im reluctant to use trusses because the owner wants to store stuff above the rafters later (he can't make an actual attic due to code) - so i figured scissor trusses would be a decent go-around, and then throw some rafters underneath.

[Bruce A. King]

Order "attic room trusses" they are designed to carry loads for storage and leave lots of room for it.

It sounds like someone might be considering building their own trusses.
This can't be done legally. I saw some homemade trusses on an old carport once, they were built out of very thick lumber and probably looked impressive when new but were sagging badly and I had to recommend a bull dozer.

[ccoombs]

Ray

You can frame the roof using rafters only....but you would require a ridge beam. This is not conventional framing, it is engineered. You may want to check and see if they have another detail with collar ties high on the rafters and omit the ceiling joist (floor joist) off. Then your friend can install them after he gets his final.

In this area (Southern California) it is difficult to get trusses for this type of project due to the amount of work.......but that has been changing in the last few months. Now the truss companies are calling me asking for small jobs.

If you friend changes his mind and wants engineered plans, give me a call.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

This link might be interesting to you Ray.

www.hometips.com/hyhw/structure/119roof.html


Marcel

[Ray Delgado]

hey thanks for the incredible responses guys! as soon as i'm more informed about this kind of stuff, i hope to help people out with their questions too. i'll check into that truss company stuff.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by bking

Order "attic room trusses" they are designed to carry loads for storage and leave lots of room for it.

I hadn't heard of these Bruce, but it's sure a good idea. Do you know if there's a big cost difference?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by kshepard

I hadn't heard of these Bruce, but it's sure a good idea. Do you know if there's a big cost difference?

Kenton;

Up here, the design does not really matter too much on the price, it is the material envolved an/or the complicated design in various trusses. An attic design truss is not complicated and does not affect the price that much.

Only way to go when you want to use attic for storage.

Marcel

[Bruce A. King]

Big price difference since the truss companies here will not make them unless they are at least 40 lb/SF.

My shop has them and they have no.1 grade 2x8's for rafters (upper chord)
and 2x10's under the floor section (lower chord) and 2x4 web members.
They are 2 ft on center with a 10/12 pitch and span 24ft.
Cost in 2001 was about $110 apiece when regular 2x4 trusses were around $50 each. Prices were direct from truss manuf.

[John W. Springstead]

That sound almost like an "attic room" truss Bruce. Did it have a 12' wide room with approx. 5' knee walls? What we call attic storage truss' here just have a wide area in the center without webs for storage, and maybe a 2x6 bottom cord depending on the span. They can then be 5 or 6/12 pitch even. Not a lot of storage area, but at least designed to carry extra weight. Not sure what Rays friend is after.

[ccoombs]

I have seen the "attic room" trusses. I have seen them for FAU's in the attic as well as for storage or lofts.

My house has a loft with trusses with a very similar design. They didn't use the bottom chord for the floor system, the profile is almost identical. The roof pitch is 6/12 with the ceiling at 3:12 and 5' knee walls.