roof

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Quote from the Canadian Wood Frame House Construction.

All engineered wood products are not alike. Plywood sheathing is typically manufactured from higher grade species of mature trees. Waferboard and oriented strand board incorporate scrap wood and wood from less desirable , fast growing tree species. Both types of engineered wood products provide adequate performance, but the latter group of roof sheathing products may be more resource efficient.

In many areas, using local materials is more appropriate than importing materials. For example, using rough sawn boards as roof sheating is preferred in many parts of Canada over engineered wood products. The selection of local materials encourages employment and reduces the use of energy associated with the transport of imported materials.

The type of roof covering which is selected often determines the number of roof sheathing options available. When metal or wood shake roof coverings are used, spaced boards may serve as the roof sheathing, utilizing a fraction of the wood compared to sheet-type roof sheathing.

Keep in mind that no matter what type of roof sheathing option is selected a key consideration is the quality of workmanship employed.

I rest my case.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Prove that.



Prove that.



Prove that.



Prove that. You say it doesn't exist based on your own perception and lack of knowledge. Yet we have had several experienced inspectors state otherwise, you are unwilling to accept experience as a fact.

That's the best you can do. I expect more.

I'm not seeing "several experienced inspectors state" that a roof will last longer with spaced sheathing as opposed to full sheathing. I thought I had read all the posts but maybe Ms Margarita was distracting me.

[rrichards2]

Hallelujah!

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rrichards2

Russel,

Here is your documentation.

How to Build A wood-Frame House
L.O. Anderson
Engineer
Forest Products Laboratory, Forest Services
U.S. Department of Agriculture

Dover Publications, Inc
New York

That doesn't state that a skip-sheathed roof will last longer than a full-sheathed roof, unless I missed something. Feel free to point it out if I did. Thanks.

[rrichards2]

Sorry, It's Margarita time!

[rrichards2]

Besides, who is going to print that information anyway. The lumber industry wants you to buy plywood and OSB. They make lots of money selling what would normally be waste.

[rwand1]

That doesn't state that a skip-sheathed roof will last longer than a full-sheathed roof, unless I missed something. Feel free to point it out if I did. Thanks. [IMG]images/2006/buttons/quote.gif[/IMG]

Listen don't start playing word games and what I did or didn't say in my last post. I posted what it stated. I am shocked that you seem to be stuck on this issue. I know what I see and I know what I have been told by roofers and the farmers. I think I have gone out of my way to try and placate you, but for whatever reason you are attempting to stump me or make me out to prove some point that is subjective is becoming tiresome. I am not going to spend anymore time looking up info, posting it, and trying to reply but you would try the patience of a Saint.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rrichards2

Besides, who is going to print that information anyway. The lumber industry wants you to buy plywood and OSB. They make lots of money selling what would normally be waste.

True.

However, surely, if what Raymond says about skip-sheathing making roofs last longer than full sheathing, there ought to be some research or other documentation somewhere. Maybe the research hasn't been done; maybe there is no empirical evidence.

Perhaps it might make for some good research by the Forest Products Laboratory. Or maybe one of the Southern universities could do the research for Southern Yellow pine. Maybe the Northwestern universities could do the research for Douglas Fir and Western Redcedar. Perhaps we could learn a lot.

I'm all for learning, so if the documentation is out there stating that skip-sheathing makes roofs last longer than full sheathing, point it out to me. I've already done some searches on my own and am not finding anything stating so. That doesn't mean that it's not there; just that no one has been able to find it yet. Perhaps.

I'm not saying that either way is the best way. I'm just asking for documentation from a certain individual concerning his seemingly all-encompassing statement that roofs last longer if they are skip-sheathed. If it's not there, that's fine, too. If he wants to believe that it is so, perhaps an AA mantra of owning one's statements might work:

"I believe that. . . ."

or

"Based on my experience. . . ."

I have no problem with that.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rwand1

I know what I see and I know what I have been told by roofers and the farmers. I think I have gone out of my way to try and placate you, but for whatever reason you are attempting to stump me or make me out to prove some point that is subjective is becoming tiresome.

Ah-ha.

I knew there was no documentation stating that skip-sheathing makes a roof last longer than full sheathing, and you finally admited that it's simply what you have been told by roofs and farmers in your area and that it is subjective. Absent any documentation, that's what I was looking for. See my previous post about owning one's statements.

[rwand1]

Russel

Do you really think you are smart or just a smart ***? You haven't been able to provide any information to the contrary other then your own pontifications and theories. You started this bull of yours when you initially questioned that spaced decking and wood shingles theory was wet. This is not the first time you have attempted to spar with me. You have done it before and I think you have an obession with it.

I stand behind my convictions and statements,whether you think I should be able to prove it or otherwise. I read alot of questionable statements from you, which I don't agree with, but I don't make a habit of making a moutain out of mole hill, nor do I profess to be a pompus ***.

[Russel Ray]

I merely asked if you had any documentation supporting your statement.
You don't.
Simple as that.
You're the one who made the statement.
I asked for supporting documentation.
Since there is none, I'll simply have to rely on your experience and your own beliefs.
Simple as that.
Just like the Bible, there doesn't have to be any documentation for one to have faith and beliefs.

[rrichards2]

How did we ever manage without all this documentation?
I suppose know one really knew how to build a house until
somebody came along and wrote a book about it.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

R Ray;

How about you doing a little research of your own, since you appear to have all kinds of time on your hands while the rest of us are laboring during the day, and prove otherwise.

Spaced planking and skip sheathing were and have been around for Centuries and Barns had rough Sawn boards horizontal and vertical and roofing products lasted for years without the ventilation requirements that are mandated today. If all you can see in these past post is yourself, well I am sorry that you can not related to the old Canadian and Northeast methods of roof sheathing that proved excellent performance for both wood shingles and roofing products of the era.

It is unfortunate on your part that you can not relate to that and would be an educational benefit for you, even at your age to persue the Archives of Ancient Building Techniques, and no, do not ask me for documentation.

Old New England, I believe came way before Texas in building techniques other than Adobe Roofs which is another subject.
You wood be surprised to see some of our old buildings and how they have conjured the test of time. California is an other world in comparison to building techniques and is all about money.

Up in this area as well as Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, you could see building examples that would blow your mind, because it is obvious that you can not relate to this subject or agree.

I feel at this point that if you want to persue this subject, you come up with the contratictry backup or documentation that you wish to prove us wrong.

Marcel
</IMG>

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mcyr

R Ray;

How about you doing a little research of your own, since you appear to have all kinds of time on your hands while the rest of us are laboring during the day, and prove otherwise.

Already done, thank you very much. I'm not finding any research that says that spaced sheathing makes a roof last longer than full sheathing. And I knew there wasn't any as of a few years ago when I went searching for a Client of mine. I thought that since such a definitive statement had been made by Raymond that he might have some documentation to support his statement. He doesn't, and that's okay. That's all I wanted to know. Case closed.

Originally Posted by mcyr

Spaced planking and skip sheathing were and have been around for Centuries and Barns had rough Sawn boards horizontal and vertical and roofing products lasted for years without the ventilation requirements that are mandated today.

Actually, they had ventilation; they just didn't know it affected the roof. That ventilation came in the form of open doors and open windows. Not until we started sealing our houses, conditioning them, and putting lower ceilings in them did we realize that we needed ventilation. Ergo, the attic.

Originally Posted by mcyr

If all you can see in these past post is yourself, well I am sorry that you can not related to the old Canadian and Northeast methods of roof sheathing that proved excellent performance for both wood shingles and roofing products of the era.

I don't believe I ever said the old methods were not good.

What part of this question do you and Raymond not understand?

"Can you provide documentation supporting the statement that skip sheathing makes roofs last longer?" That's all I asked, perhaps in different words, but that's the basis of my question. That question says absolutely nothing about whether older construction methods were better or worse. Simple question. Current simple answer: "No, you cannot."

Originally Posted by mcyr

You wood be surprised to see some of our old buildings and how they have conjured the test of time.

That's cute. But "conjured" the test of time? Hmmmmmmmm.

Originally Posted by mcyr

California is an other world in comparison to building techniques and is all about money.

What does that have to do with anything. As I stated earlier, all I have ever seen for wood roofs is skip-sheathed planking. Wouldn't that seem to support Raymond's statement that skip-sheathed planking makes roofs last longer? Yet in my various research over the years concerning this subject, I have found no studies or research indicating such. So I thought Raymond might have some documentation that I didn't have. I simply wanted to know if he did. Why he made such a production out of me asking if he did is beyond my comprehension. Darn margaritas. My mommy told me that Ms Margarita was not good for me.

Originally Posted by mcyr

Up in this area as well as Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, you could see building examples that would blow your mind, because it is obvious that you can not relate to this subject or agree. I feel at this point that if you want to persue this subject, you come up with the contratictry backup or documentation that you wish to prove us wrong.

Having done property renovations over 33 years in seven states, I've seen quite a lot of stuff. I've been involved with historic properties, new properties, and everything in between.

Lack of documentation supporting your statement generally means that the statement is wrong or that no one has ever set out to prove it right or wrong. Again, all I was asking is if someone knew of some documentation showing that skip-sheathing made a roof last longer. Absent that documentation, then it cannot be supported, not necessarily meaning that it is wrong, just that there is no documentation supporting it. I was looking for documentation supporting it. No one has any. Case closed.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

I saw how important ventilation is and how it does effect the life of shingles .
I did a 11 year old home and there was almost no gravel left on the shingles .
I went into the attic and found zero soffit baffles and could see no roof vents .
I wondered how I could have walked the roof and missed the roof vents .
Got down from the attic went out side and there are 4 pan vents on the roof
went back into the attic and no holes cut for the pan vents .
No ventilation I feel is why the roof was almost destroyed.

Roy Cooke sr Royshomeinspection.com