Roof structure. No bracing. Any issue?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

The house is probably over 70 years old. The sheathing was upgraded to plywood at some point in time. Another home inspector (also a licensed contractor) stated that the rafters should have been braced to hold the extra load. You can see that no bracing is present. From the ground, there were no sags.

What say you?

[Mark S. Tyson]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

The house is probably over 70 years old. The sheathing was upgraded to plywood at some point in time. Another home inspector (also a licensed contractor) stated that the rafters should have been braced to hold the extra load. You can see that no bracing is present. From the ground, there were no sags.

What say you?

Attachment 33115 Attachment 33116 Attachment 33117

what i say is you are between a rock and a hard place. i'm also alicensed contrator and am certainly impressed by the previous inspectors report that the rafters should have additional bracing perhaps he is an engineer as well. the strucure being 70 years it would be impratical to apply a current buiding code. by using rational analysis (engineering speak for i don't know) you could conclude that becase there is no apparent sagging that the roof is capable of supporting the applied loads. let us know how you decide to frame your narritive on this issue.

[Bruce A. King]

I always recommend old roof framing practices be "upgraded" even if no sagging is present due to snow loads. The new plywood on top you mentioned just adds more reason for bracing and brings it to a reasonable "repair" item versus just an "upgrade". This is a good example of issues that can be legally reported or not reported as deemed necessary by an inspector based on the exact conditions, rafter spans and overall opinion of that inspector.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

The house is probably over 70 years old. The sheathing was upgraded to plywood at some point in time. Another home inspector (also a licensed contractor) stated that the rafters should have been braced to hold the extra load. You can see that no bracing is present. From the ground, there were no sags.

What say you?

Attachment 33115 Attachment 33116 Attachment 33117

I don't like the way the rafters and ceiling joists connections are made. They stack and are not lapped for strength. It appears plywood gussets were added on one joint. And it also appears that the rafters bear on a cantilevered section of the ceiling joists (out over the soffit?).

Suggestion:

"Framing does not meet current framing standards/practices. Some modifications have been made already. Additional framing or reinforcement may be required. Seek advice from framing contractor and design professional."

[Mark S. Tyson]

Originally Posted by bking

I always recommend old roof framing practices be "upgraded" even if no sagging is present due to snow loads. The new plywood on top you mentioned just adds more reason for bracing and brings it to a reasonable "repair" item versus just an "upgrade". This is a good example of issues that can be legally reported or not reported as deemed necessary by an inspector based on the exact conditions, rafter spans and overall opinion of that inspector.

should you guys be more concerned with wind load as opposed to snow load. i know i'm a florida boy but i did not realise that S.C. recieved significant snow

[Dale Duffy]

I'd say even though it's not conventionally framed, and there is no apparent issues, you could have the framing braced-framed-altered but personally I do not see any logical reason at the time of this inspection.

If the framing concerns you, being 70 years old, and still holding strong, have a contractor do what ever he may think is necessary to bring the framing close or up to to current framing standards. Or get three free estimates, ideas-suggestions to upgrade the framing from licensed contractors before you close escrow.

It does good pretty good for an old house Joe...

If I was buying it I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

[Bruce A. King]

Originally Posted by mtyson

should you guys be more concerned with wind load as opposed to snow load. i know i'm a florida boy but i did not realise that S.C. recieved significant snow

We had 18 inches here a few years ago, typically much less but it does snow about every year. Ice storms are common too. We also had a hurricane once, Hugo came through in 1989.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by mtyson

should you guys be more concerned with wind load as opposed to snow load. i know i'm a florida boy but i did not realise that S.C. recieved significant snow

Every 10 years we get 6 inches that stays around about 3 days. There are exceptions, however.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by bking

We had 18 inches here a few years ago, typically much less but it does snow about every year. Ice storms are common too. We also had a hurricane once, Hugo came through in 1989.

So you're saying the roof framing is sure holding up very well?----

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

I should add that this is a pre-listing inspection. Actually, it's a post listing inspection. One buyer already walked. Partly because the 1st inspector had nothing nice to say about the roof structure. (The inspection was aborted...no report from the 1st guy.)

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

I should add that this is a pre-listing inspection. Actually, it's a post listing inspection. One buyer already walked. Partly because the 1st inspector had nothing nice to say about the roof structure. (The inspection was aborted...no report from the 1st guy.)

Well...Put Bruces auto-comment in the report Joe---

We had 18 inches here a few years ago, typically much less but it does snow about every year. Ice storms are common too. We also had a hurricane once, Hugo came through in 1989, and the roof held up nicely.

---

[Bruce A. King]

Originally Posted by dduffy

So you're saying the roof framing is sure holding up very well?----

So far..... but it may have limits or have hidden stress cracks now that could react with wind from another direction.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Since it's an inspection for a seller, this is what I came up with. Thanks Larry.

"The attic framing does not meet current framing standards or practices. Some modifications have been made which impose heavier loads than the original structure supported. Snow may add even more weight. While no sags were apparent, additional framing, bracing, or reinforcement may be required or prudent. We recommend that you seek advice from a licensed general contractor."

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Since it's an inspection for a seller, this is what I came up with. Thanks Larry.

"The attic framing does not meet current framing standards or practices. Some modifications have been made which impose heavier loads than the original structure supported. Snow may add even more weight. While no sags were apparent, additional framing, bracing, or reinforcement may be required or prudent. We recommend that you seek advice from a licensed general contractor."

That'll save ya Joe...Nice---

Especially a Pre-Listing Inspection...if it wasn't, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but since some other nit wit might...good comment..!!

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by bking

I always recommend old roof framing practices be "upgraded" even if no sagging is present due to snow loads. The new plywood on top you mentioned just adds more reason for bracing and brings it to a reasonable "repair" item versus just an "upgrade". This is a good example of issues that can be legally reported or not reported as deemed necessary by an inspector based on the exact conditions, rafter spans and overall opinion of that inspector.

I never use the word upgrade......... and as for justifying same because of snow load................please...............this is the Carolina's.....there is no snow load unless you are in the mountains.

I would have simply stated that the framing does not follow basic building principles, which it does not as one can see by looking at how several of the rafters were spliced.

Being that the roof is not sagging (and if not signs of stress are showing on the exterior walls) I would simply recommend a licensed general contractor familiar with framing principles evaluate same.

By stating the above you are not tied to code (which did not exist back then) yet are relieving yourself of liability and directing your client to get a more qualified opinion.

regards

Jeff