Steel post question

[Barry Adair]

For those who want the link to the ASHI member who wrote that:

http://www.octoberhome.com/articles/...ustcolumn.html

There are numerous great articles out there by this author.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Attended a NACHI structural class earlier this week. The engineer didn't say anything about the adjustable columns being "temporary". He did say that the maximum exposure of the threads shouild be no more than 3 inches.

[Ian Gills]

I don't consider it a big deal if a support post is missing 2 bolts. It's not going anywhere with all that weight bearing down on it.

Most manufacturers state that all holes (in their brackets) must be utilized, but use your own discretion.

Thanks David. I might just buy a few bolts then. Should be an easy fix.

[Robert J. OConnor]

The unacceptable temporary supports posts generally have telescoping sections, in addition to the screw adjustment. Adjustable steel columns are permitted if they are the permanent type (no telescoping sections) and about at least 11 gage steel. And most manufacturers now allow either screws up or down, which I don't think is an issue (that is if attached at the ends correctly) ... although many builders think it's good practice to embed the threads in the slab or damage the threads if at the top.

See 2.2 of following ICC approval report, as well as typical details at the end ... http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/BNBC/94-54.pdf

Note that steel columns for new construction need to be 3" nominal diameter Sch-40/Std weight (3-1/2" OD & 0.216" thick) per IRC R407, or they need special ICC approval with a stamp on the column.

Note that "Lally Column" refers to an older trade name very thin steel pipe (16 - 18 gage) that needed to be filled with concrete for capacity. Very susceptible to moisture and rust (e.g. leaking basement), that could significantly compromise the stability. Many just refer to any steel column as a "Lally Column" (similar to the brand name "BX" armored elec cable, which also isn't made any more). And around here, steel columns are not filled with concrete any more. Generally a waste with the thicker steel required now.

JMO & 2-nickels ...

[Robert J. OConnor]

P.S. And having a maximum of 3" of exposed threads is recommended for stability ... although not required by many screw column manufacturers (e.g. 6-1/2" of exposed threads max per 3.3 of the above ICC sample report I linked ... which is a lot in my opinion ... )

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by badair

Write these or similar up. They are not intended as permanent structural supports no matter what their size is.

I posted a jack like this in a post I said I wrote up and everyone said the jack was fine.....I said NOT....wrote it up.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

I posted a jack like this in a post I said I wrote up and everyone said the jack was fine.....I said NOT....wrote it up.

Do ya have a pic. On the surface I think you made the right call Paul, as that does indeed look like the telescoping temporary type posts ...

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Robert, by "telecscoping" are you talking about an additional threaded section toward the middle of the column somewhere (never seen) or a column that uses pins to hold the two sections in place after it's been rough adjusted, then uses a threaded section near one end to make final adjustments?

What's the verdict here. If I walk into a basement and see an adjustable column 3 inches or more in diameter, with 3 inches (or 6 1/2 inches) or less of exposed thread, do I then have to find a stamp on the column certifying it for permanent use?

Good article Marcel!

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by kshepard

What's the verdict here. If I walk into a basement and see an adjustable column 3 inches or more in diameter, with 3 inches (or 6 1/2 inches) or less of exposed thread, do I then have to find a stamp on the column certifying it for permanent use?

Kenton,

I call out all telescoping support posts as temporary posts, whether it displays a stamp or not. And the thread length is not a deciding factor for me.

Telescoping support posts get written up as "Recommend replacing temporary support posts with cement filled lally columns.

[Robert J. OConnor]

In my opinion all telescoping type steel posts should be flagged for further evaluation and possible replacement.

Even if it has an approval stamp, is that approval for temporary shoring or for a permanent steel column? What are the approval restrictions? One type is limited to a height of 51" when used as a permanent column. You would have to research the approval, or just flag it and move on.

Also I wouldn't call out how to repair it ... as for example concrete filled steel columns are not used in many areas any more in typical construction, and may not be needed unless loads are very heavy.

JMO & 2-nickels ...

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

I'm convinced.

"Temporary adjustable steel supports should be replaced with permanent supports which comply with applicable codes".

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Wow...great information everyone...I didn't realize all of these were "temporary"...here in Minnesota, virtually every house with a basement has at least one of these...I've seen as many as twelve...We have a preponderance of homes over 100 years old here...many are three story Victorians..."stick-built", brick, stone, you name it...with most on stone foundations...fantastic homes, but after 100 years...some of these foundations get pretty scarey !!!

[brepanshek]

The thing i hate about being a home inspector is knowing exactly what to callout. For an example here with telescoping posts. I read this thread a couple of days ago and when on an inspection today and came across a raised ranch home with a main wood beam down the center supported with telescoping steel poles with 4"-5" thread exposed on top and the base was below the concrete basement floor. I found no stickers on the post for it's use, so the big question here is....

The home has been standing there for 30 odd years, Do I call this out and say their only designed for tempory supports???? I hate that there are so many opinions in this field, so confusing, What should we all be stating when finding this in the feild as Home Inspectors

(I was looked at as a wacko by the home owner and the realtor for even saying something about the columns)

[Ian Gills]

You guys need to take small risks (rather than no risks, which is impossible) and use a little discretion.

You are only on the line if it fails, or if someone else thinks it will fail. What is the risk of it failing? Are you more likely to be hit by a bus, or do you really think it poses a threat?

And what is the cost if it does fail? Big...report it. Small....why bother?

So risks*costs

My HI overlooked many small issues that violated code, but did highlight the biggies.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Fantastic article, Marcel...I learned alot...I see these columns everyday...everybody has their own opinion about them...Thanks !!!