Steel post question

[Mike Nelson]

I have always advised my clients about these temp posts, they have, as far as I know, some that are rated up to 1200 lbs, but that is no where near enough for a structural load. And any column that supports a substantial load, should be "permanently mechanically attached" both bottom and top, I spotted some in a state of failure just the other day, many have a top plate that pivots, no way jose!!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mnelson1

I have always advised my clients about these temp posts, they have, as far as I know, some that are rated up to 1200 lbs, but that is no where near enough for a structural load. And any column that supports a substantial load, should be "permanently mechanically attached" both bottom and top, I spotted some in a state of failure just the other day, many have a top plate that pivots, no way jose!!

Any pictures Mike? We like pictures.

Thanks again for the instruction in Denver last weekend.

[mthomas2]

Well, kinda' makes the point that "functioning as intended" can be a pretty slippery concept.

The contractor who installed the telescoping column intended that it support the girder - and it's done so for 30 years, and probably would do so for 30 more (or for that matter, for 300 more).

So it's" functioning" as intended", and most contractors are going to advice a client to leave it as it is.

The manufacturer however did not intend the column to function as a permanent support, so it's not functioning as the manufacturer intended, and an engineer is probably going to say (if only to CYA) that it should be replaced with a support intended this the use and location.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

If you're not sure, and you get conflicting information when you ask... you can err onthe side of safety and add a disclaimer alongside the narrative describing whether or not you saw evidence of failure. If it were easy... well, that's why we get $10 and hour and everyone else only gets $9.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by kshepard

If you're not sure, and you get conflicting information when you ask... you can err onthe side of safety and add a disclaimer alongside the narrative describing whether or not you saw evidence of failure. If it were easy... well, that's why we get $10 and hour and everyone else only gets $9.

Kenton, can I bid $12 an hour to come up and work for me?
That would not include commuting. Sorry.

Marcel

[brepanshek]

The manufacturer however did not intend the column to function as a permanent support, so it's not functioning as the manufacturer intended, and an engineer is probably going to say (if only to CYA) that it should be replaced with a support intended this the use and location.


Where would I get such information when I come across this in the field. To call something like this out at time of inspection, could be a major situation with all parties.(REALTOR, SELLER, and your client) If there is no lable on post then I need something for my files to pull out that states legally that the telescoping posts are not right for the application???????????????

[mthomas2]

If the article cited above is correct, if it's a telescoping post, it's not intended for permanent installation.

[brepanshek]

OK 1 last question then I get off this topic. I was told by another inspector that stating a finding like this is outside the scope of a home inspection, and do not need to report something like this. My question is, are we as professional inspectors to 1.call it out and document it, or 2.just document it in the report, or 3.don't have to say or document again thing. Please I'd like to know the proper way to do things in this industry, not how another inspector might do it but what should be done. Thanks and I will conclude with this.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by brepanshek

I was told by another inspector that stating a finding like this is outside the scope of a home inspection, and do not need to report something like this.

A visual inspection of exposed framing and supports is part of a home inspection, so I disagree with that position (as long at it's visible).

You should look to see if any visible framing and supports looks solid with no obvious deterioration as part of a home inspection. And if you see any steel supports that are the telescoping type, or looks to be a temporary screw jack like the one with a pivoting top, and/or do not have adequate attachment and support at the top or bottom (e.g. permanent steel post just resting on a slab) then it should get flagged for further evaluation.

It is beyond a home inspection (and would cross PE licensing laws) to comment on the adequacy or suitability of any members or supports.

JMO & 2-nickels ...

[Brian E. Kelly]

2.3. Basement, Foundation & Crawlspace

I. The inspector shall inspect:

A. The basement.
B. The foundation
C. The crawlspace.
D. The visible structural components.
E. Any present conditions or clear indications of active water penetration observed by the inspector.
F. And report any general indications of foundation movement that are observed by the inspector, such as but not limited to sheetrock cracks, brick cracks, out-of-square door frames or floor slopes.

II. The inspector is not required to:

A. Enter any crawlspaces that are not readily accessible or where entry could cause damage or pose a hazard to the inspector.
B. Move stored items or debris.
C. Operate sump pumps with inaccessible floats.
D. Identify size, spacing, span, location or determine adequacy of foundation bolting, bracing, joists, joist spans or support systems.
E. Provide any engineering or architectural service.
F. Report on the adequacy of any structural system or component.

Nice call Robert.

[David P. Valley]

There's nothing wrong with recommending upgrades or repairs.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by dvalley

There's nothing wrong with recommending upgrades or repairs.

I agree.

Marcel

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by dvalley

There's nothing wrong with recommending upgrades or repairs.

In the case of adjustable columns you really need to do some research and check the listing/approval and do some rough calcs in order to make a correct call.

Some are approved for heights as little as 4' and others are approved for heights up to like 9' ... some of the ones with approvals for 7' to 9' have a higher capacity, and some have a much lower capacity which may not work for even supporting one level at typical column spacing. It really depends on the steel thickness and configuration. There is no way to definitively tell just doing a visual examination.

If you recommend upgrades/repairs where they may not be needed and the client gets a second opinion from an engineer (I have done a number of them where it was just flagged to have it looked at), or a savvy contractor who is not just out to milk them and knows what conditions the particular type is okay for, you could end up with egg on your face.

So for an HI it's my opinion the best course of action with suspect adjustable columns is to flag it for further evaluation ... and if you feel strongly about it you can always flag it for evaluation by an SE and also recommend budgeting for repairs.

JMO & 2-nickels ...