Twisting ceiling joists

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

These ceiling joists were twisting badly.

What would be the proper repair? Metal connectors to the top plate? Blocking?

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

These ceiling joists were twisting badly.

What would be the proper repair? Metal connectors to the top plate? Blocking?

Attachment 27862 Attachment 27863

Positioning and connecting them to the side of the rafters is the best construction method by triangulating the roof and ceiling.

If some bracing was attached perpendicular to and on top of the ceiling joists and tight to the bottom of the rafter, that could help the ceiling joist from tipping over some.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by lkage

Positioning and connecting them to the side of the rafters is the best construction method by triangulating the roof and ceiling.

I agree with Larry, and personally, I think the workmanship in your pictures is crap. It would throw up red flags for me, and I'd be searching for the root cause of the problem. My 'spidey sense' tells me theres a bigger problem in the works. I'd be willing to bet that someone screwed up, and is not shown in the plans that way, and that is how they compensated for it. I would opt for installing blocking, as opposed to metal connectors.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

The previous homeowner was the builder.

Take a look at the girder in the crawl space.

[Bobby Hamilton]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

These ceiling joists were twisting badly.

What would be the proper repair? Metal connectors to the top plate? Blocking?

Attachment 27862 Attachment 27863

Was there a plywood walking surface here? If not, I'd be suprised that the joists didn't just fall over. Everyone's a "Carpenter"

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

The previous homeowner was the builder.

Take a look at the girder in the crawl space.

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Who was he? Mr. Magoo?
Jeez... reminds me of your photo's in post #1.
No wonder he sold/is selling.
Seems you may be getting closer to the 'root' cause.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by bhamilton

Was there a plywood walking surface here? If not, I'd be surprised that the joists didn't just fall over.

No decking. I walked out a little on the structure and was real uneasy about it.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Hey Joe,

As other have said, crap workmanship.......as far as twisting, no need for metal ties or plates.......a simple, fast and inexpensive fix is to tie all the joist together with a 1x4x___ positioning same near the rafters. Also, you may want to check the nailing of same, its hard to tell but it looks like they simply nailed the butt end of the joist and that was it.

Anyway, such repairs can be made in less than 10 minutes.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

The previous homeowner was the builder.

Take a look at the girder in the crawl space.

Attachment 27864 Attachment 27865

Not good......suppose to be in the middle third........... the code official should have caught that one..............but then again so many of them don't or won't go into crawls unless they have to.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

Hey Joe,

As other have said, crap workmanship.......as far as twisting, no need for metal ties or plates.......a simple, fast and inexpensive fix is to tie all the joist together with a 1x4x___ positioning same near the rafters. Also, you may want to check the nailing of same, its hard to tell but it looks like they simply nailed the butt end of the joist and that was it.

Anyway, such repairs can be made in less than 10 minutes.

Joe,

Normally I would agree with what Jeffrey stated (and Larry before him), but without more info, I'm not sure I would endorse that corrective action. Even at 400% zoom, I cannot tell the method of attachment. I can only assume the rafters were toenailed, but cannot see evidence of that. Do you have a wider angle photo of the attic?

And before anyone says it, no, I am not trying to give definative advice based upon a photo. This type of conversation, trading thoughts, is what helps keep the mind sharp. It's all about education

Glad you made it out of there without incident.

Jeff

[Gregory A. Liebig]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

The previous homeowner was the builder.

Take a look at the girder in the crawl space.

Attachment 27864 Attachment 27865

This picture expains everything and I think I got it... They put up the ceiling joists first to site in the pier. But then some jerk added the drywall and everything got messed up.

[Gordon I. Kay]

With a stick framed roof like that my concern would be with rafter spread. Were collar ties in place, ridge beam support by load bearing members to foundation?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by gkay

With a stick framed roof like that my concern would be with rafter spread. Were collar ties in place, ridge beam support by load bearing members to foundation?

Honestly I should have taken more photos. I've forgotten many of the details now. I assume ties were there and I know there were some vertical braces supporting the ridge beam. I referred it out and hope that settles it.

I couldn't get to the ends to check how they were fastened because there wasn't much to hold onto and I felt uneasy about walking on that shaky structure. I suppose they were toe nailed.

[Greg Veal]

Joe,

I think "Maxwell Smart said it best...missed it by that much!"

The pictures of the laminate beam in the crawl space, what a joke. I can't believe that mistake was missed, and/or left uncorrected. Lots of folks had the chance to catch that mistake, and apparently didn't.
With the roof rafters and the beam conditions you have questioned, it kind of makes you wonder what else might be hidden.

[Gregory A. Liebig]

I don't think anyone was purposely hiding anything except their lack of knowlege in construction methods. I would not feel comfortable with this. Was this project issued a permit? Just curious...