Wall plumb'ness'

[Michael R. Boyett]

Does the IRC specify the plumb tolerance for an interior non-load bearing wall? I'm away from the office for a few days and don't have access to any reference material. Here's the scenario - I inspected a new home a few months ago for the builder and now the buyer is complaining that one bedroom wall is leaning slightly. The buyer told the builder that it should be "within 1/8" to be to code. Well, obviously that is not a valid spec but the buyer must have been talking to someone to even get that idea. The buyer didn't say 1/8" in 8' or anything, just 1/8". The builder has looked at the wall and cannot see any issues visually and doesn't want to put a level on it until he knows what the IRC requires. Any ideas?

I know this has been discussed before but I can't seem to find any related topic using Search.

[Larry D. Kage]

Mike, NAHB's Residential Construction Performance Guidlines Third Edition says, regarding a framed wall that is not plumb, that "the face of wood-framed walls shall not be more than 3/8-inch out of plumb for any 32 inches in any verticle measurement."

But, I have to say, I'd shoot myself if I built one that far out of plumb.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by lkage

Mike, NAHB's Residential Construction Performance Guidlines Third Edition says, regarding a framed wall that is not plumb, that "the face of wood-framed walls shall not be more than 3/8-inch out of plumb for any 32 inches in any verticle measurement."

But, I have to say, I'd shoot myself if I built one that far out of plumb.

Plumb is Plumb, if the bubble is in between the two little lines it passes, so take a 6' level and establish the difference between the edge of the line and true center of the bubble between the lines and voila, the maximum tolerance.

Marcel
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[Barry Adair]

Michael,

Homeowner would have to show me the documnet they are citing.

This could fall under TRCC builder standards one year:

(a) Building and Performance Standard for Walls.

(1) Walls shall not bow or have depressions that equal or exceed 1/4 of an inch out of line within any 32-inch horizontal measurement as measured from the center of the bow or depression or 1/2 of an inch within any eight-foot vertical measurement. If a wall does not meet the standard stated in this paragraph, the builder shall take such action as is necessary to bring the variance within the standard.

(2) Walls shall be level, plumb and square to all adjoining openings or other walls within 3/8 of an inch in any 32-inch measurement. If a wall does not meet the standard stated in this paragraph, the builder shall take such action as is necessary to bring the variance within the standard.

(3) A crack in a beam or a post shall not equal or exceed 1/2 of an inch in width at any point along the length of the crack. If a crack in the beam or post fails to meet the standard stated in this paragraph, the builder shall take such action as is necessary to bring the variance within the standard.

(4) A non-structural post or beam shall not have a warp or twist equal or exceeding one inch in eight-feet of length. Warping or twisting shall not damage beam pocket. If a non-structural post or beam fails to meet the standard stated in this paragraph, the builder shall take such action as is necessary to bring the variance within the standard.

(5) Exterior sheathing shall not delaminate or swell.

(A) If exterior sheathing delaminates or swells, the builder shall take such action as is necessary to bring the variance within the standard stated in paragraph (5) of this subsection.

(B) The homeowner shall not make penetrations in the exterior finish of a wall that allow moisture to come in contact with the exterior sheathing.

(6) An exterior moisture barrier shall not allow an accumulation of moisture inside the barrier.

(A) If an exterior moisture barrier allows an accumulation of moisture inside the barrier, the builder shall take such action as is necessary to bring the variance within the standard stated in paragraph (6) of this subsection.

(B) The homeowner shall not make penetrations through the exterior moisture barrier that permit the introduction of moisture inside the barrier.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Thanks Barry, that's exactly what I told the builder. I informed him that the consensus was 3/8" in any 32" measurement as stated in the TRCC & the NAHB guidelines. I even e-mailed him the above statements so I think he has the ammo to defend his case. The builder has already offered to take the wall out and re-install it to the homeowner's satisfaction but the homeowner says "oh, it's not that important". Well, then why did she even bring it up in the 1st place I wonder and what does she expect to be done?

[Barry Adair]

Owner, "Show me the money, or buy back this POS!"

We can never really know what's in between their ears.

There may be a lot but sometimes it's not very useful.

Are you next on the food chain?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Am I understanding this right?

The code will allow out of plumb up to 3/8" in 32"???

That is 1&1/8" in 8'. That is ridiculous.

If that is the fact, was this code writer from Texas or Kansas or all these other places where I see crappy work Posted here.

Minimum code of 3/8" out of plumb in 32" vertical, What would that relate too in a 100 story building. ???

Amazing.

Well, at least that is one code I would never repeat.

An HI should dictate in the report exactly what he sees regardless of what Code is.
The HI is to note deficiencies to level and plumb to what he feels is not adequate or acceptable as a building standard .


Marcel


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[Michael R. Boyett]

Marcel, those tolerances are from the NAHB guidelines, not a code. Perhaps you weren't following the thread completely or didn't catch that earlier. Thanks for the lecture and instructions on what an HI should report but again I think you missed the point of the question. This had nothing to do with what was in a report. It has to do with a homeowner quoting some unknown code to a builder and the builder asking me if I had ever heard of such a thing. This is my research to provide him with the most accurate response as I can.

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Am I understanding this right? NO

The code will allow out of plumb up to 3/8" in 32"??? Who said code?

That is 1&1/8" in 8'. That is ridiculous. Not really.

If that is the fact, was this code writer from Texas or Kansas or all these other places where I see crappy work Posted here. 56 Bibber Parkway Brunswick Industrial Blvd • Brunswick, ME 04011 Devil made me do it

Minimum code of 3/8" out of plumb in 32" vertical, What would that relate too in a 100 story building. ??? A lot!

Amazing.




Marcel


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kinda like this!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Your funny Barry

[Carl Brown]

Kansas???????

Dorothy and toto say theres no place like home!!!

There are no such defects in kansas!

Marcel, It is headed your direction.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by cbrown1

Kansas???????

Dorothy and toto say theres no place like home!!!

There are no such defects in kansas!

Marcel, It is headed your direction.

Carl; Unfortunately it is already here.
Take a look at this.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/p...view/index.htm

Marcel
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[Carl Brown]

#9 just ticks me off to no end!

Cindy post at BS!


I am all for this being the norm!
Require inspections for loans. Lenders should require independent inspections, not just appraisals.


NINE WARNING SIGNS

Serious defects often present themselves in telltale ways. If you see one or more of the following problems in your home, hire an engineer to investigate. (See If you think you have a problem.)

1. Deep cracks in the foundation or basement walls. They can be signs that the foundation was laid on a poorly compacted base or poorly graded soil.

2. Sagging floors or leaning walls. A shifting foundation or structural problems with support beams could be to blame.

3. Windows and doors that never sit well in frames or close properly. House-framing problems may be at issue. If the beams, studs, and joists weren’t correctly sized or assembled, the whole house may not hang together well.

4. Cracks in interior walls. Wide cracks could signal a foundation problem. Generally, though, fine cracks are cosmetic, the result of normal aging.

5. Water damage. Warning signs include mold, rot, and insect infestation in exterior walls; staining, swelling and discoloration on interior walls; and a musty odor. Possible causes: improperly installed roofing, no flashing around penetrations and joints, no moisture barrier in a climate that requires it, lack of a drainage space behind brick or siding, poorly installed windows and doors, holes in siding, and trapped water-vapor condensation from heating and air conditioning.

6. Flooding, sewer and drain backups, and switched hot and cold water. Flooding and backups may result from poorly graded land or faulty sewer and water-main connections. Switched spigots may signal improperly installed plumbing.

7. Excessive heating or cooling bills. Rooms that don’t get warm or cool enough can be another signal that air ducts may be leaky or improperly connected.

8. Shorting or dead outlets. The electrical system may be installed incorrectly.

9. Lack of required permits. This indicates that building authorities have not performed the required inspections.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by cbrown1

#9 just ticks me off to no end!

Cindy post at BS!


I am all for this being the norm!
Require inspections for loans. Lenders should require independent inspections, not just appraisals.


9. Lack of required permits. This indicates that building authorities have not performed the required inspections.

Carl; your blood pressure is going up again. ha. ha.

Marcel

[Carl Brown]

How so many peope can not be doing their jobs and keep them baffles me! And then they seem to think they are not liable.


A TEA PARTY IS SOUNDING REAL GOOD!

How much more can the american public take?