Educational Course

[rmyers1]

David;

As the President of the Greater Milwaukee Chapter, you may request a CD of this course from Aimee Jalowsky, at NACHI Headquarters.

The 6 hour Course materials are free.

We are trying to make this course available through NACHI State Educational Administrators, in the lack there of, the local Chapter Presidents.

The reason for this is because the CD also contains all the quiz questions and answers, as required to be given at the end of the course by NACHI, and within those States which require a license, such as Wisconsin, in order to get your NACHI / State CEU's,

The Chicago Chapter is charging $25.00 for the course, to cover expenses.....Room at Holiday Inn, Continental Breakfast, Lunch. simply covering cost.

As the State of Wisconsin presently does not have a NACHI, State of Wisconsin Educational Administrator, any ideas as to who might be capable and willing to handle this position.

[William J. Decker]

David;

Since the course is state approved in Illinois, you might want o think about getting it aproved in Wisconsin as well. In that way, both Illinois and Wisconsin inspectors could take it there and get state credit as well as NACHI credit.

I will help, if need be. I don't know all the Wisconsin requirements, but I could learn.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

William:

I think you missed Joe Tedesco's point in his posting:

5.04.01:
The National Electrical Code, the local electrical code, and these guidelines shall govern all electrical work performed on new construction and renovations of existing buildings. Whenever there is a conflict in the requirements between the regulations, the more stringent requirement will prevail.

State and Municipal electrical code requirement only trumps the NEC if the local requirement is more restrictive. Not less.

I also believe you are misinterpreting if you believe Inspectors do not inspect to Code.

If you make comments within your report with regard to GFCI or AFCI, you are citing code if you are identifying a Safety concern with a recommendation of correction / upgrade.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Illinois Announcment:

The Chicago Chapter of NACHI

National Association of Certified Home Inspectors

Presents

Electrical Home Inspection Checklists

A seminar designed to provide information and guidelines to help home inspectors discharge their duties in a systematic manner

Approved by the State of Illinois for Six (6) Continuing Education Credit Hours

Date: Saturday, February 25th, 2006

Place: Holiday Inn, Hillside
4400 Frontage Road
Hillside, IL 60162

Time: 9:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.

Details: Registration begins at 8:00 a.m.
Lunch will be served

Price: $25.00 for NACHI Members
$90.00 for non NACHI attendees

This course is available to all Illinois Licensed Home Inspectors. Non NACHI attendees may apply $50.00 of their registration fee towards NACHI membership ($289.00/yr.). Visit www.nachi.org for membership details.

Attendance is limited and will be accepted on a first come, first served basis. Register by visiting our Chapter Website at www.nachichicago.org . All attendees will receive an email confirmation of their accepted registration.

Don’t miss this opportunity to sharpen your skills as a home inspector through a first class continuing education course and receive Illinois State Credit Hours!

I am curious as well.

What type of Checklist is NACHI suggesting is acceptable for Electrical Inspections?

[ekartal5]

Will, if I may refer back to a post you had with Joe Farsetta where you refer to 'significant defect' or 'not functioning as intended' as described by Illinois law. I always recommend GFCI upgrades in older homes but I believe they are grandfathered from required upgrade. Isn't a grangfathered non-GFCI outlet functioning as intended? It was not intended to be a GFCI at the time of construction. Is it considered a 'significant defect' in a granfathered home with adequate service capacity, no double taps, proper wire size, etc;? Once again I have been recommending upgrade only.

Thanks

Erol Kartal
ProInspect

[jwortham]

Erol,

I don't write lack of GFCI's as significantly deficient either.

I recommend them in my report and stress their importance. Maybe it's just me, but I save "significantly deficient" for items I consider deadly or major. It's also reported in red so it's not missed.

I believe if you yell "fire" too often, clients tend to disregard your warnings as alarmist.

I may have to revisit the issue after a consultation with my attorney as to the requirements of the statute however.

Would hate to think I should have been using that term alot more.

[ekartal5]

Hey Jeff.

I agree that it is a concern that should be addressed in the form of a written recommendation as we do. Like yourself I cannot see using 'significant defect' for something that is allowed depending on the age of the home. I just read the Illinois SOP again and did not see where we should require an upgrade in our report.

Erol

[Kenneth E. Sitzes]

Will Joe all you did was talk about codes. We home inspector our not code enforces. Yes I wanted credit an no I was not the only one who want the credit. The other one did not want to go though the hassle to make up the test that you where to give. The way you an other present the course was wrong. You where just there to blow wind. I can not call out codes an that is all you talk about. Sorry you think that want Russ & Will is doing is wrong but at less they have gone Thur the trouble to due it the right way. I'm sure that it is more for want home inspector or to look for instead of codes. Just my opinion.

Here is want was posted on Mon, Jul 18th, 12:42 PM James Bushart is Yes anyone who came from the ILL was Expecting the CEU you us failed to due want NACHI pay you to due.

(Please RSVP Jim at homeinspect@socket.net Everyone is welcome to attend this open-door home inspection event. Attendance counts as 8 hours toward NACHI member continuing education requirements. The State of Illinois has awarded 3 CEU credits for this course.)

[jtedesco1]

Attendance counts as 8 hours toward NACHI member continuing education requirements. You got these!

The course was changed to 6 hours, 3 hours was what was offered and the PROVIDER WAS SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE TEST WHICH WAS NOT READY!!!

[ekartal5]

Besides the fact that we are not code inspectors, when you start talking code with a client you open up a new can of worms. From a legal stand point you may be looked at as a code expert. Then you may be held liable for any code issues you didn't find/report.

Erol Kartal
ProInspect

[rmyers1]

Mr. Joe Tedesco

Why are you signed up to take this class in Illinois, when it is available in Mass. your home State.

You are neither a Home Inspector, or a resident of Illinois.

Please explain.

[jtedesco1]

This book is available to NACHI members only for $15 each. It is written by a NACHI member and approved for use by schools and trainers who offer NACHI approved continuing education.

To order via credit card call Aimee Jalowsky at (303) 258 7271 or by mail by sending $15 to "NACHI Foundation", 1750 30th Street, Boulder, CO 80301. Ships within 24 hours.

Proceeds from this great 75 page unbinded book written by NEC Consultant and NACHI trainer/member Joe Tedesco benefits The NACHI Foundation. This book is a home inspector must have.


Thank you Joe!


http://www.joetedesco.org






This was the handout given out at that first class, and I also showed my slides and the slides I purchased from Inspection Depot, which were very much related to code.

If you look at the CEU area on the Member's Only where the attendees commented about the class I gave, you will see glowing results and on the my presentation and the comments from the many who attended the convention last year where great!

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by rmyers1

Mr. Joe Tedesco

Why are you signed up to take this class in Illinois, when it is available in Mass. your home State.

You are neither a Home Inspector, or a resident of Illinois.

Please explain.

Because, I am a NACHI Member.

I talked to the Chairman in Massachusetts last week and he was not aware of the materials, and didn't know when he would have another meeting if any.

True, I am not a Home Inspector but I am an IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector and Licensed Master Electrician!

I promise not to say a word, I support the effort, just want to see what I am missing.

[David Nice]

Originally Posted by rmyers1

David;

As the President of the Greater Milwaukee Chapter, you may request a CD of this course from Aimee Jalowsky, at NACHI Headquarters.

The 6 hour Course materials are free.

We are trying to make this course available through NACHI State Educational Administrators, in the lack there of, the local Chapter Presidents.

The reason for this is because the CD also contains all the quiz questions and answers, as required to be given at the end of the course by NACHI, and within those States which require a license, such as Wisconsin, in order to get your NACHI / State CEU's,

The Chicago Chapter is charging $25.00 for the course, to cover expenses.....Room at Holiday Inn, Continental Breakfast, Lunch. simply covering cost.

As the State of Wisconsin presently does not have a NACHI, State of Wisconsin Educational Administrator, any ideas as to who might be capable and willing to handle this position.

I'll contact Aimee for the CD. As far as an Education Administrator, what would that entail?

Wisconsin has no specific requirements for course approvals as the courses are directly (or reasonably) related to home inspections. 50 minutes = 1 hour (or Unit) and a completion certificate is required with name of course, date, time and location (distance learning is acceptable).

[William J. Decker]

Joe H.;

The HI law as written for Illinois specifically defines 'significantly deficient' as 'not functional or unsafe'. Non-functional is easy to determine. Unsafe is not.

The administrative rules of the law, available here:

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00C02000R.html

Shows the 'significantly deficient' definition on point 10 and the definition of 'unsafe' on point 15.

"Unsafe: A condition in a system or component that is a significant risk of personal injury or property damage during normal, day-to-day use. The risk may be due to damage, deterioration, improper installation or a change in accepted residential construction standards."

Damage, deterioration and improper installation are also clear. 'Change in accepted residential construction standards', as my lawyer has explained to me (and only in Illinois) means this:

A house built in 1970 has no GFCIs because there were no GFCIs back then. The owner is not required by local building codes to install GFCIs because of grandfathering. Now, we all know that having GFCIs in bathrooms and kitchens and exteriors and such is much safer than not. The NEC also recognizes this. So, a change in accepted residential construction standards has made the absence of GFCIs a safety issue. The same applies to AFCIs, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detectors, grouding, and many other things. Also, please note that the unsafe definition is not limited to human injury, but also applies to property damage. A condition that was OK, under code, at the time of construction but is not OK by current standards and can cause property damage is unsafe, under Illinois state law. If an Illinois HI does not call it out, they are in violation of the state's HI law. Could not be clearer.

Now, we cannot require any changes. We can only 'recommend'. I regularly expain this to my clients and say, that under current standards it is 'unsafe' and I must, by law, call it out. What they or the seller or the lawyers do is beyond my control and responsibility. I must, however, obey the law under which I am licensed.

Does this help?