NACHI, Illinois, and Massachusetts approved continuing education material

[Greg Bell]

I have no ill feelings toward Joe. Like you I respect him. I too feel that Joe has a wealth of knowledge that would benefit all home inspectors.

[William J. Decker]

Totally and without reservation, agree!

Just needs to join us in our world.

I truely hope he does.

(That will make my job WAY easier!)

[Joe Farsetta]

It comes down to one simple concept: Teaching is an ART, and not a SCIENCE.

Joe T does have a lot to offer. Transitioning from a purely electrician-based view of inspections, to the HI's view of the world is his challenge. I believe he will make it.

It's funny, because here in NY, the AHJ can be any number of entities. In portions of Westchester County, the power company (ConEd) is the AHJ, and they are often not "code purists".

NY State is also not recognizing the current version of the NEC. AFCIs are not required on new construction.

So, once again, the inspector is caught in the middle. We need to recognize things, and know how to report them, even when it is not technically a "code ciolation" . As to Illois, I always knew it to be a scary place... up until now, I had no idea HOW scary.

Wow...

To Will, Joe T, and Greg... this was a really good thread.

To Will, the Physicist... you aint on a high horse.... In this game, there arent may absolutes. Always more than one way to skin a cat. Keep up the great work, guys!

[jtedesco1]

OK, I am on your side. I will look forward to the convention where we can listen to the instructors teach about home inspections.

I am sure we are attending some of the same seminars. I understand the process, and wonder how many other Home Inspectors around the country call out the AFCI requirements. The existing wiring and equipment may not be suitable for that type of device.

Until the exception, permitting a device other than an AFCI circuit breaker becomes available, I am wondering how I would install an AFCI CB in a Zinsco or Bulldog type panel?

[William J. Decker]

Joe;

AFCI breaker in a Zinsco or FPE bulldog (really, Stab-Lok) panel!

This problem will haunt me for years!

Thank you, Joe T., ever so little.

How about this. A debate! Schedule a debate! During the convention!

Many would pay, good money. The "Phyisist" V.S the "Code Guru"!!!!

I would pay good money for that!

Anyone want to join us?

I will pay, personally, pay for the room. There! I have publically posted it.

Hope we are all winners!

Anyone?

Note to Nick and Paul. Want to REALLY shake up those NAHI guys?


Get on board!

[jtedesco1]

Will:

I accept, but let's really make it interesting and add 5 more Home Inspectors, that's 6 against 1 which is typical when it comes to the issues at hand.

Let the audience ask the questions, and have Aimee as the moderator with the replies coming from the members on the panel.

I am sure questions will arise that will be answered very easily when related to the safety of an installation and typical defects. Here are a few.

1. How do you install an AFCI CB in an existing 40 year old Zinsco or Bulldog Panel panel?

2. Why is it so important to be concerned about the condition of an existing properly maintained installation? Can it be rebuilt and cleaned up a bit?

3. Can I go beyond the SOP and add additional recommendations to my report based upon the national fire and shock problems cited by the CPSC?

4. What's your idea of what is considered as a safety defect? Is a missing plate, or wall switch installed upside down a problem, or how about the panel directory, can it a problem when inaccurate?

Also the members of this panel should come from around the country - from East to West and in between.

I can think of a few who who add some good conversation and discussion.

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/fire96.pdf


Please save the wise cracks for the convention!

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Will:

I accept, but let's really make it interesting and add 5 more Home Inspectors, that's 6 against 1 which is typical when it comes to the issues at hand.

NACHI's call, not mine. I am available to help in any way that NACHI wants.


Let the audience ask the questions, and have Aimee as the moderator with the replies coming from the members on the panel.

Cool. One question, though. Can I wear a Kevlar vest?


I am sure questions will arise that will be answered very easily when related to the safety of an installation and typical defects. Here are a few.

No doubt!


1. How do you install an AFCI CB in an existing 40 year old Zinsco or Bulldog Panel panel?

Why would one want to? I call out these panels as having significant safety issues and 'recommend' replacement. One difference between a code inspection and a home inspection, a home inspection cannot 'require' anything. We can only present the issues and recommend.


2. Why is it so important to be concerned about the condition of an existing properly maintained installation? Can it be rebuilt and cleaned up a bit?

Because it might be defective? Duh! Isn't that the whole purpose of an inspection. With service equipment, they don't get better with age, unlike you and I


3. Can I go beyond the SOP and add additional recommendations to my report based upon the national fire and shock problems cited by the CPSC?

I have no opinion of what you can do. You are not a home inspector. I know that I, as a home inspector, regularly go well beyond the state and NACHI SOP. If it relates to current safety standards, I am required by state law to call it out, as I have previously proven. Have you read that law?


4. What's your idea of what is considered as a safety defect? Is a missing plate, or wall switch installed upside down a problem, or how about the panel directory, can it a problem when inaccurate?

Mising cover plates, eithe Jbox or wall switch or outlet, yes. Upside downwall switch, no. no panel directory, yes. Inaccurate panel directory, I don't trace them down because home inspectors are prohibited from switching breaker on and off. But I do have a circuit tracer. Hummm. You give me an idea.

Safety deals with safety. If there is a 1% chance of serious injury, I call it out. And not just with regards to electrical. Again, I am required by our state law to do so. Electricians and code inspectors are not.


Also the members of this panel should come from around the country - from East to West and in between.

Agree. Are Jeff Pope and Joe Farsetta coming? I would probably need them for my 'side'.


I can think of a few who who add some good conversation and discussion.

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/fire96.pdf


Please save the wise cracks for the convention!

Wise cracks? Me? Surely you jest!

[jtedesco1]

Will:

Some good comments, thank you Sir, and some I will agree with. The title you propose for this debate would be easier to deal with if we agreed to call it the "Home Inspector's Electrical Inspection Round table", even if all we see are those sitting at the table.

Can we look at some images and discuss what's wrong here?

You have many images, and so do I, and they can cover old and new installations in different areas.

How many old Zinsco or Bulldog Panels are still serviceable, and what if the replacement of a defective breaker was all that was needed?

I think that Paul made a comment recently about some of the other panels that are also responsible for a fire because of a malfunction.