NACHI needs a few good men / women

[Gerry Beaumont]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

I have seen an education committe charter, and it is somewhat limited.

You are correct Joe, here it is

Originally Posted by Gromicko

Gerry, do it

That was it, short sweet and to the point, I fail to see the limitations

Gerry

[Joseph Hagarty]

Gerry & Joe F:

Bull**** Walks.

Money Talks.

Post the Real Deal.

Any takers on posting the Education Committee Charter?

How about Posting the ACTUAL Members of the ETHICS Committee.

http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewto...ethics&start=0

http://www.nachi.org/esop-committee.htm

That would be a nice Start.

[Russell Spriggs]

Hey, Wil-
(if you can castrate one of my "L"s, I can steal one of yours!)
No way would I lop off your post. It would take me about 4 hours to peck away at creating one of that size.

Unfortunately, on this topic, I have to keep quiet, as I really am not clear on the issues. I've been a very apolitical inspector, and have only recently seen some of the concerns that appear to have been around for a while. One of the bennies of living out in the woods, I guess.
However, I always have vacillated between amusement and fury whenever I have seen an apparently "reasonable" post prompt some member to rise out of the depths of this 8,000 member sea and goad, slash, snipe or otherwise attempt to pi$$ off and provoke another's response.

But, then, what do I know. If ignorance is bliss, I must be as happy as a stoner on a weedpile!

Russ (ell)

[Russell Spriggs]

Oh, ethics committee-
I've been invited to join both that and the MAB.
I've indicated my interest in (and ignorance of) both.
Whoever wanted me most, I figured, would grab me first.
(Perhaps to their chagrin?)
so, we'll wait for an announcement . . .

[Joe Farsetta]

Joe,

The charter exists. You seek, once again, to divide the membership. Your accomplishments while President of NACHI were questionable, at best. You seek to question me at this juncture. Dont make me laugh.



Will,

I would ask you to re-read your post, especially where (in one section) you state that I have somehow misinterpreted the intentons of function of these 50 volunteers, when in a sunsequent post, you state that someone must be responsible and have authority at the state level (paraphrasing). In fact, the announcement in the EC Update read as follows:

We are in the process of establishing a volunteer network of NACHI State Educational Representatives, or Educational Administrators, whose function will be to act for NACHI in accordance with NACHI's Educational Policies and / or with that State's Continuing Educational Policies, Rules, and Regulations.

To me, this seems like an attempt to coordinate, control, and approve any educational process at the State level.

You seem to believe that states will require associations to coordinate the educational approvals and efforts of their members. This may be true, but only in instances where the association is providing its own training. NACHI has always accepted vendor's courses for CEUs. So, if a vendor has an approved course within a state, why would we not accept it, and why would NACHI care to get involved in the first place? I think this needs to be looked at on a case by case basis, rather than do a one-size-fits -all approach.

As to what may or may not happen state by state, these are your interpretations and feelings as to what an eventual reality may or may not be. Here in NY, we do have licensing, and there are no such controls, or need for single spokespeople within this organization. TO the contrary, NY does not want any association to drive an agenda their way. When they see this, they immediately shut it down. In NY, each SCHOOL needs a coordinator/admin. Since NACHI is not a SCHOOL, this does not apply. Now, perhaps what you fear is the way it works in Illinois. It does not work that way, however, in Ct, Pa, NJ, and NY. I'm confident that it doesnt work that way in many other states, as well.

Finally, and to your point as to who is in charge of the education committee, it is Russ Meyers. However, education falls under Professional Development. You begged me to join. That's nice to know, especially since my name appears nowhere in the committee ranks, (after I thought I'd be a committee memner). You say you want me to join. That's funny as I volunteered to help coordinate NY, since I helped craft the current law, craft the current curriculum, and am already an approved instructor of HIs in the state. Dont get me wrong; I do not feel slighted. I volunteered more than once. I can take a hint. It's cool.

My point in all this is that the education process is going to continue to come from a variety of directions. We will not stop it. We will not try and stop it.

There was a time when those who are currently complaining about me, tried to use me to achieve some dubious goals. It ties back to last years convention, and a dislike for the attitude of one or more members of a particular committee. I will say little more. Now that they can not have their way, they have taken it upon themselves to personally and professionally malign me. This goes to the point of wanting me ejected from the org. What the membership does not know is they these individuals were recorded at the NAtional Convention blasting NACHI and its founder. I submit that NACHI is being manipulated at a number of different levels from within, and from surprising positions. These individuals are trying to manipulate current goings on, including making more out of NACHI moving its corporate offices than is truthful or warranted. They make Bob Brown's efforts with InterNACHI seem like NACHI is somehow involved or faltering. It is not.

There is more afoot here than meets the eye. I even received complaints regarding Bob Brown several months back, and the fact that he was an autorized NACHI education provider. Seems that no one is entitled to make money providing quality services for the rank and file. Yes, Bob, there are those out there who tried to have me curtail your endeavour, including current plans. Watch your back.

So, imagine what things would be like if I did shut Bob down, bending to the whims of others. Imagine if I refused to allow Gerry Beaumont to be the NAtional Training Consultant, and provide high quality training to our members. Yes, I was told not to "allow" him to have a title. It was total bull****. Gerry deserves credit and recognition.

As I stated, I am in the middle of a continuous **** storm. I put up with it because I believe in this organization. I was one of its earlier members, and have watched it grow. Erby Crofutt was the first poster on this message board, EVER. I think I was the second or third. I do what I do because I love NACHI, and I believe in Nick.

When I see posts like Canada needs its own entrance exam, I ask why. Not because it couldnt be done, but I ask for quantification. Who has been damaged by our present exam? The initial talk was how many things on it didnt apply to Canadian inspectors. I asked for someone to quantify the statement. Know what? I got nothing. So, with all that could be going on with educational materials for the membership, and I see talk of a possible drain on available resources within the committee on a project that can neither be justified, nor is in the purview of the committee, what am I supposed to do?

Even now, I get slammed by some who do, indeed, contribute, and from others that have done little for this org, beyond having a title on their business card during their tenure.

I'm used to it. I'm okay with it.


And, I am very heppy to announce that Russel Spriggs has joined the Ethics and Standards of Practice Committee. Committee list will be updated shortly. As I have no ability to change the current list, I am at the mercy of others to do the postings.

[Joseph Hagarty]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Joe,

The charter exists. You seek, once again, to divide the membership. Your accomplishments while President of NACHI were questionable, at best. You seek to question me at this juncture. Dont make me laugh.

Joe:

If the Committee was actually operating under the guidelines of a Charter, the members would have a copy of the Charter.

No question needed. Your reply provides the answer.

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

There was a time when those who are currently complaining about me, tried to use me to achieve some dubious goals. It ties back to last years convention, and a dislike for the attitude of one or more members of a particular committee. I will say little more. Now that they can not have their way, they have taken it upon themselves to personally and professionally malign me. This goes to the point of wanting me ejected from the org. What the membership does not know is they these individuals were recorded at the NAtional Convention blasting NACHI and its founder. I submit that NACHI is being manipulated at a number of different levels from within, and from surprising positions. These individuals are trying to manipulate current goings on, including making more out of NACHI moving its corporate offices than is truthful or warranted. They make Bob Brown's efforts with InterNACHI seem like NACHI is somehow involved or faltering. It is not.

Watch your back.

Thanks for the info that NACHI engaged in illegal activity secretly recording Members conversations without their knowledge.

Thanks for the information that as Director of Professional Development, you condone this behaviour.

[Joe Farsetta]

Joe,

If I stand in front of you, and have a recorder in my pocket, I have not broken the law. Even as far as telephone conversations are concerned, it is legal in many states to actually record a telephone conversation, providing that at least one of the parties are aware of the activity. The person recording the conversation can be the party knowing of it, and thereby makes it a legal activity. The person who recorded this conversation brought the recorder after being approached once, and afterward being allowed to attend a round table.

Once again, you prove your ignorance of facts, in an effort to malign me. I say right, and you counter with left. It's okay, Joe. I expect nothing less from you.

As to condoning this behavior, there is nothing illegal in it. Considering the graviry of the conversations I am speaking of, and who was doing the majority of the talking, the membership would be shocked.

Here you go, Joe... http://www.nachi.org/esop-committee.htm

[jbowman]

Florida



Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03: All parties must consent to the recording or the disclosure of the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication in Florida. Recording or disclosing without the consent of all parties is a felony, unless the interception is a first offense committed without any illegal purpose, and not for commercial gain, or the communication is the radio portion of a cellular conversation. Such first offenses and the interception of cellular communications are misdemeanors. State v. News-Press Pub. Co., 338 So. 2d 1313 (1976), State v. Tsavaris, 394 So. 2d 418 (1981).
Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Fla. Stat. ch. 934.02.
Anyone whose communications have been illegally intercepted may recover actual damages or $100 for each day of violation or $1,000, whichever is greater, along with punitive damages, attorney fees and litigation costs. Fla. Stat. ch. 934.10. A federal appellate court has held that because only interceptions made through an "electronic, mechanical or other device" are illegal under Florida law, telephones used in the ordinary course of business to record conversations do not violate the law. The court found that business telephones are not the type of devices addressed in the law and, thus, that a life insurance company did not violate the law when it routinely recorded business-related calls on its business extensions. Royal Health Care Servs., Inc. v. Jefferson-Pilot Life Ins. Co., 924 F.2d 215 (11th Cir. 1991).

[Joe Farsetta]

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication.

Nice post, John, except for the fact that the law you quote pertains to the interception of communications made via wire, specifically as they relate to telephone taps and the interception of electronic communication. Recording a conversation between two people standing across from each other has never been illegal. In fact, a few years back, an argument was made pertaining to intercepted telephone conversations used to convict mobsters. The communications in question were intercepted from a wireless telephone, and later used at trial. The court upheld the legality of the recording, as the telephone relied on technology that used the public broadcast spectrum, which is why the statute you dug up excludes cellular communication. Now, if these recordings were held to be constitutional and legal, what of a copnversation between folks drinking and trashing this organization and its founder. Even in police work, recording devices using body mics and parabolic units are routinely used on all states, and do not require authorization from a judge. So, let's not confuse a wire tap with a microcasette in someone's pocket. Since the conversations in question were not made mano-a-mano, and definitely not in a private setting, one would be hard-pressed to prove any notion of privacy. Nice try, but no cigar.

Perhaps we should be more concerned with the content of the recording in question, rather than the means by which it was made. Do you have personal knowledge of this recording and its content?

[Russel Ray]

I hate it when I get somewhere too late to read all the good posts because they've been deleted. Darn.

[Patrick Carter]

Okay, now that I am confused why recording conservsations have anything to do with volunteering to help out HI's with education in thier respectives states. Are you still looking for volunteers?

[William J. Decker]

Always looking for volunteers. See the first, original post from Mr. Russ Myers and contact him.

[jbowman]

Perhaps we should be more concerned with the content of the recording in question, rather than the means by which it was made. Do you have personal knowledge of this recording and its content?

NACHIGATE ---- Oooooooh. Cloak and dagger drama. Intrigue. Suspense. Give me a break.

Apparantly you do Joe. So do a transcribe for all of us. Don't keep it a big secret.

[Carla Horne]

I did reply with an email, but I will post it here as well
I will take NH

Carla

[Blaine Wiley]

Geez, if ever there was a hijacked thread that portions of should be in the spam section....