QOD -1/9/2007 - Electrical

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I have no idea. My head is full of useless trivia. I'd tear 'em up on Jeopardy. Consider it free information.

I am serious Mark. I think you know the answer, so help me out . How often is anything larger the #8 solid used in a residential setting?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by tallen

I am serious Mark. I think you know the answer, so help me out . How often is anything larger the #8 solid used in a residential setting?

Very often, in my area. The grounding electrode conductors are almost always #6 solid bare copper, and the water pipe GEC for a 200 amp service is almost always #4 solid bare copper. This varies geographically, with folks in other areas having never seen large solid conductors. I thought you were just teasing me.... sorry.

Here's a link to a GEC tap of #6 copper: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...k/HPIM0640.jpg

And here's a link to a GEC to a rod from an 800 amp service I did a couple of months ago:
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...k/HPIM0633.jpg

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Paul;

Isn't there a thingy about a #6 GEC would be adequate in size for any strange spike in either voltage/amperage, that would sustain the shock and the 5/8" x 8 foot ground rod would burn out first.
Thought I heard of something like that over the years.
Might what to explain how this all works, (we are learning in the process)

Thanks for your time.
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[Marc D. Shunk]

Even if you have a million amp service (they don't exist, by the way ), the biggest copper conductor that you're ever required to run to a ground rod is #6. The theory behind that is that the most current that a ground rod can ever dissipate into the earth can be easily handled by a #6. You could run a 4/0 conductor to the rod if you wanted to, but it would be a waste of material. The ground rod can only dissipate so much, and #6 will do the trick. Some installers choose to upsize a gauge or two if protection from physical damage is a concern.

On a related note, ground rods are only required to be in contact with the earth for 8'. There are 10' and longer ground rods available on the open market. There are sectional ground rods that can be driven in 10' sections, coupled together, for a total makeup of unlimited length. You can permissiably run an aluminium grounding electrode conductor to rods that stick up out of the ground sufficiently that will allow the proper earth to aluminium conductor seperation while still having 8' of ground rod in contact with the soil. These connections stick up out of the ground, and are normally covered with a plastic missle shaped structure for protection (looks a lot like a CATV splicing pedestal). This might be more information than you really need, but here you have it if it's interesting to you.

[tdietrich1]

I'm confused....

As for physical damage, 2002 NEC says protect #4 from severe physical damage (if memory serves me, since it's so ancient ), 2005 states just protected from physical damage.

I'm confused. What was the implied answer? I think I don't understand the question. Is this based on 2005 NEC 250.66A?

tom

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Thanks Marc, this also coincides with what my Electricians on my job told me today.
Very interesting, and here you go, I have just learned something new.
This board is amazing source of education, wouldn't you say?

Marcel

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Thanks Marc, this also coincides with what my Electricians on my job told me today.
Very interesting, and here you go, I have just learned something new.
This board is amazing source of education, wouldn't you say?

Marcel

Yes!

Read this IAEI article for more information that helps to explain the grounding requirements for building electrical systems.

http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magaz.../grounding.htm

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol...ok never mind...I am sure HI's will see alot fo aluminum GEC's with missle shaped protectors in their home inspection ventures....lol

Alas....we forget....we are teaching on things HI's will see...not what electricians will see.

I will defer all questions to the other electricians....I lost my drive to educate today....

Besides...I got a house to finish wiring......later Brothers....

[sparks]

"Alas....we forget....we are teaching on things HI's will see...not what electricians will see."

Incredible!

[Gerry Beaumont]

Originally Posted by sparks

"Alas....we forget....we are teaching on things HI's will see...not what electricians will see."

Incredible!

Hi Sparks,

Thanks for interjecting some rationality here, I saw not much wrong with Pauls question, I for one have never seen an AL conductor being used as a ground, but thats just me.

Lets concentrate on teaching Home inspectors how to recognise basic electrical deficiencies and leave the semantics over on Mike Holts board where they belongs.

Regards

Gerry

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Whats the matter sparks......you do not AGREE.....Gerry that was MY statement to which Mr. Sparks copied...and simply added " incredible"

It seems...I don't have a FAN in Mr. Sparks......lol..it's all good.....not here to make friends...lol....only to educate.

I am trying my DANGED to get him to simply place my username on IGNORE but alas....it has not happened....thehehehhehe

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Whats the matter sparks......you do not AGREE.....Gerry that was MY statement to which Mr. Sparks copied...and simply added " incredible"

I'm very sorry, Paul. I have grown to like you, but I must respectfully point out one thing...

If an electrician has "seen" something, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that a home inspector will at also observe the same thing at some point in time. Wouldn't you agree? Maybe my commentary includes more information than is necessary, but from the PM's that I rack up on a daily basis, I can only assume that it is helpful (or at least interesting) to some users.

As I have encouraged you in private, and now in public... please disregard the past troubles with other users. I am genuinely here to help you in the best way I know how to. Maybe I don't know how to yet, but I'm trying very hard.

[Brian E. Kelly]

So what's the answer ???????????????????

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Ahh...Marc..I was not refering to you in my previous response.

Look......If the NACHI members would prefer to not have me assist them I am more than happy to not do so. I have WAY more on my plate than I need and to be honest with you.....could careless.

Nothing has to be in private with me....the QOD was designed for a PURPOSE....and it is limited...however you MUST give the original poster time to explain the post in the end and to use it as an educational tool.

Do you think I water the terms down here because I want to....?

My post was not flawed.....it was designed to bring questions from HI's on issues I stated in my response.

You have to understand the method to the madness......many times the questions are to bring out issue we can use at the END of the voting session to use to educate the HI........chances are slim HI's are going to see alot of GEC's that are aluminum...and if they do.....they may know how to deal with them but in the limited time we have per day......before a new QOD starts we are trying to deal with the basics here.

As for your helping....think your doing a WONDERFUL job...I have no monopoly on helping these guys....hell if they dont want my help I have plenty of places I can be as you do as well.....

AS for PM's........You must be doing a better job at educating them than I am...because I dont get many...most of mine are calls or e-mails...so with that said...have at it fella....more than happy to let you take care of it...

AS for Mr. Sparks.....sir you are simply a troublemaker and WAY out of line...from your BLAH on being old...get over it............all my information posted is foundational SOLID and CORRECT....so before you start spreading your FEBAL crap......think about it for a second.

Marc you are doing fine........I do have a life BEYOND this....as do you and remember helping is what we do.......but being RAM-RODED by some home improvement wannabe is NOT what I call helping.

I dont take any of this too serious...and certainly not from a NON-NACHI member like Mr. Sparks.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Here you go Brian.....Mr. Sparks can explain the rest...he is a wise one...

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost....5&postcount=10