Alberta Home Inspector Licensing/Regulation meeting in Edmonton on May 25, 2009.

[George A. H. Luck]

Of course, Vern, you are assuming that any of the established CAHPI guys will give them the required hours of mentoring. Oh look! A squadron of cows just flew by!

[James H. Bushart]

Claude continues to refuse to address the fact that mentors have an incentive to lie about the actual amount of time they devote to their apprentice (take the money and rubber stamp the training) and that there is no way of validating the accuracy or quality of this part of his "fool proof" scheme of assuring quality.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Claude continues to refuse to address the fact that mentors have an incentive to lie about the actual amount of time they devote to their apprentice (take the money and rubber stamp the training) and that there is no way of validating the accuracy or quality of this part of his "fool proof" scheme of assuring quality.

James - Isn't that what you said? At least that is what you claim.

[James H. Bushart]

How do you validate, other than by the word of the mentor being paid, that he provided the services that he was paid for? The word of the applicant who will be receiving the certification?

[Claude Lawrenson]

The same way you do with apprenticeship. It has worked for decades.

The same as educational validation in public and private institutions - it to has worked for centuries.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

The same way you do with apprenticeship. It has worked for decades.

The same as educational validation in public and private institutions - it to has worked for centuries.

Thank you for affirming that...like InterNACHI standards...not all legitimate methods of certification require verification/validation.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Once again I did not affirm anything. You are making your own assumptions.

To clarify private institutions in respect to academic education - kindergarten to graduation from college/university. There is a huge difference - where validation is part of the education system.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Once again I did not affirm anything. You are making your own assumptions.

To clarify private institutions in respect to academic education - kindergarten to graduation from college/university. There is a huge difference - where validation is part of the education system.

No need to explain.

Your affirmation that mentoring/paid apprenticeships, which mirror iNACHI standards in their inability to be independently validated, are legitimate means for providing credentials as to one's abilities to perform has been duly noted.

Of course, you will need to somehow attempt spin your way out of it....and I understand. The record, however, remains clear.

[senwiinspection]

I have a question for James. With 11991 posts since DEC 2004 - when was the last time you actually performed an inspection. You certainly do not seem to have any time outside of posting to be doing actual work or continuing your educational process. An as a seasoned inspector how did YOU get your knowledge. Are you saying you never received any one on one instruction from someone else. How is it that you now know what to do. Did you just make it up as you go along?

The point is and you pointed this out, the Government licensing sets a minimum set of requirements. And in BC guess what - the NACHI program did not meet those MINIMUM requirements. So how can your standards be "better than everyone else" if they did not even meet the minimum Government standards. NACHI is an excellent organization for inspector support (this forum) and for continuing education. But they (in their current form) do not make any kind of creditable certifying body.

You are right when you point out that licensing provides a false sense of security to the public. All licensed inspectors are not created equal. Just means they met the minimum requirements.

These are my personal thoughts and do not represent any official view of my organization.

Sean Wiens

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

.....To clarify private institutions in respect to academic education - kindergarten to graduation from college/university. There is a huge difference - where validation is part of the education system.

The public school system here has decided not to test students and pass them to the next grade automaticly.

[Claude Lawrenson]

http://education.alberta.ca/admin/testing.aspx

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

http://education.alberta.ca/admin/testing.aspx

This applies to grade 9 and 12 students only . Grades 1 to 8 and 10 to 11 will not be tested. This is what was proposed last year. Will it come to pass? No pun intended.
The other testing is to monitor the level or quality of education and is used by the government to say "See we are doing a great job" The reality is that under achievers are shunted out of the system before they get to the final exams in grade 12. Why? If they do not write the final exam them the average is higher and again the government can repeat "See we are doing a great job"

[Vern Mitchinson]

To get back on track item i of the proposal says
"The introduction of any regulation should be “grandfathered” to authorize the regulator to issue a licence during the first 360 days to a home inspector who has already met the standards” after this time period the inspector not passed by CAHPI will revert to paying the CAHPI inspector to do inspections as stated in Item h that says "Home inspection businesses should be given financial incentives (ie: a share of the fees) to supervise the work of novice home inspectors."
With these two proposals if enacted the home inspection industry in Alberta will return to the dark ages. Indentured servants comes to mind

[James H. Bushart]

As I have stated, earlier......the mentoring scam is nothing new in licensing laws.

CAPHI is introducing it to you, but it has been around for a while. To proponents of licensing bills, it is something you do to the "other guy" and the mentoring scam is a means of making money while ...(forgive me for this)....."protecting the consumer".

While CAPHI will denounce NACHI for its inability to provide a third party validation to any of its requirements......it will not stop them from promoting the mentoring scam...which also is unvalidated.

Once the "mentor" gets his money....what's to stop him from "signing off" on a wannabe licensee in a hurry? Maybe, for an extra lump of cash, the new wannabe can be "signed off" on the first day of "mentoring". Who will know? How can it be validated?

If you think the wannabe licensee is going to jeopardize his own license and admit the he paid to skip a step....forget it.

Meanwhile....."mentors" promote themselves by the number of wannabe licensees they have sent on to greatness.

Don't fall for it, Canada. You can hardly find anyone in the states to take it seriously, anymore...outside of PHIC.

[W Paul Blakey]

I wonder what happened to this posting ... I was given an email alert but when I came to the site it was nowhere to be seen ...

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Jim: As usual, your grasp of what is really happening is warped by your love of Nick's royal acknowledgement that your unresearched and totally wrong ramblings actually fit into his bizarre ( and wrong ) view of the Canadian inspection industry.

You and Nick rely on marketing to save the iNACHI inspectors from oblivion. Unfortunately, they can't market if they don't qualify to be inspectors. They don't qualify to be inspectors because Nick in his usual, arrogant manner has decided to let them all fend for themselves.

I feel sorry for these inspectors and I feel sorry for Nick. I and others offered him a way to help the iNACHI membership, but Nick decided that his personal bank account was much more important.

Licensing is scheduled to come to Alberta later this year, and today I learned that the Ontario government has a January 31, 2010 date set for licensing. Fortunately for consumers and competent inspectors, I hav also been told that the licensing will use the National Certification as the benchmark credential.

Bill Mullen

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