Anonymous reply to Raymond Wand's question about CAN-P-9.

[Nick Gromicko]

Raymond Wand posted:

"The national certification and accreditation model for home and property inspectors is intended to comply reasonably closely with CAN-P-9 criteria as published by the Standards Council of Canada. This does not guarantee or ensure that the model is in complete compliance with CAN-P-9 criteria.

In order to determine whether or not this model is in complete compliance with CAN-P-9 criteria, it would be necessary for the National Certification Body to undergo a comprehensive audit conducted by a firm qualified to conduct ISO audits. Such an audit is outside the scope of this project.

So if there is no audit and its outside the scope of of the National why is it being promoted as meeting CAN P9 when in fact it doesn't?"



Anonymous reply:

The first two paragraphs, which are in the NCP documents for all to see, explain the intent fully. The National Certification Model was designed using CAN-P-9 only as a guideline so that we could use some parts of an accepted and known protocol. Rather than create new protocols and guidelines from scratch, it made sense to adopt parts of the CAN-P-9 protocol that fit into the National Program. CAHPI has always made it clear that the Certification Model does not comply with CAN-P-9, but is designed to be 'reasonably compliant.' That just means that we didn't merely make up the rules and the procedures. We referenced patterns that were already in place and tested.

The NCP has not and will not be promoted as 'meeting CAN-P-9'. Any accusations that it is being promoted as such by CAHPI National or the National Certification Authority are untrue and intentionally misleading.

[rwand1]

Well according to CAN P9 you can't claim anything unless its audited. To suggest you follow CAN P9 is erroneous without being accredited via audit.

Someone was shy about posting that info Nick they must be awfully shy!

[rwand1]

Ya know the more I think about this the more I can see there is a credibilty problem.

Lets see... CAHPI spokespeople have been on record as stating:

- Everyone, all 5000 inspectors will be certified by 2007.
- NACHI will be irrelevent after the Fall Conference by OAHI-CAHPI in Niagara Falls.
- The Editor in Chief of the Canadian Home Inspector Magazine has been on record, making disparging remarks, threats, erroneous posts about Nachi and Nachi members.
- Mr. Guihan President (aka Invisible Man) does not respond to offers to attend Nachi's Conference.
- OAHI a signatory to CAHPI has not followed its own by-laws, or accounting procedures, it doesn't permit free thought, association, or free speech.
- We have the DPPC Chair making comments about NACHI being inferior and using OAHI resources to pronounce such arbitrary unfounded statements. This person also sits on the National Body CAHPI.

Yes okay I guess we have nothing to worry about the accuracy of what CAHPI and its National agenda have cooking for the rest of us.

[rwand1]

Nick et al

Help me.

If the National is based on a standard, which is CAN P9, and the National Certification Authority is the Certifier, as I understand, from what I have read..., the Certifier (NCA) has to be accredited to be able to accredit inspectors. How can a self regulating body which has appointed itself, and has not met the requirements of CAN P9 legally accredit others?

If anonymous would like to post I am awaiting a reply?

BTW I am taking my information from Chibo 2 and Standards Council on Certification Bodies.

[Nick Gromicko]

There is one way it can....

Should I reveal it?

[rwand1]

Okay I'll bite...

[Nick Gromicko]

A self appointed and self regulated private trade association can certify or accredit its own members. That's it. A form of masturbation.

What it can't do (and what a real government agency can do) is compel anyone to become certified by them.

As long as they don't directly or indirectly attempt to harm NACHI member's business later by lying and telling potential customers or REALTORs that you "Have to" be certified by them and only them... our pack of attorneys will continue to sit back and twiddle their thumbs.

NACHI already has Canadian national certification in place and it has been doing well for many years. We encourage other private, non-governmental trade associations to offer their form of national certification as well. Competition is healthy and there is no reason one shouldn't procure as many certifications as one desires. NACHI has a long history of promoting competing certifications.

We hold no animosity toward the Johnny-come-lately's in Canadian national certification.

[Nick Gromicko]

Nick's definition of "voluntary": We tried to make it a law and failed.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by gromicko

A self appointed and regulated private trade association can certify or accredit its own members. That's it. A form of masturbation.

What it can't do (and what a real government agency can do) is compel anyone to become certified by them.

As long as they don't directly or indirectly attempt to harm NACHI member's business later by lying and telling potential customers or REALTORs that you "Have to" be certified by them and only them... our pack of attorneys will continue to sit back and twiddle their thumbs.

NACHI already has Canadian national certification in place and it has been doing well for many years. We encourage others private, non-governmental trade associations to offer their form of national certification as well. Competition is healthy and there is no reason one shouldn't procure as many certifications as one desires.

We hold no animosity toward the Johnny-come-lately's in Canadian national certification.

Thanks Nick this is just what Raymond and I have been saying all along it is strictly a con job by some self appointed people who wish to control the Home inspection Industry and make them selves in control.
They say for a country to be controlled by the communists it only needs ten % of the members and they have control .
This is exactly What CAHPI is trying .
Get 100 and you are close to the ten % and make lots of noise and just maybe the Government will listen.
Fortunately some have seen through what they are trying to do and I hope they never succeed.

Still they have not posted their itinerary or who is the group who are teaching and those who want to control.

Here again we get this attitude .

Claude Lawrenson vbmenu_register("postmenu_97718", true); Ontario Home Inspections, Inc. NACHI Member User Name: clawrenson Location: Tecumseh-Windsor, ON Posts: 409 Re: Have you applied for National Certification Hello Raymond -I guess you will have to have faith and believe me when we talk about the differences between CAHPI National and OAHI the provincial association and one association within CAHPI National. Certainly you have notable concerns, voiced both here and it sounds like on record. I am not here to debate those issues.


I have had no reason why we should trust them past performance has shown they can not be trusted .
Roy Cooke


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[Nick Gromicko]

Don't get mey wrong, I'm not saying that they are or are not pretending to be a government agency or pretending that everyone MUST go through their certifcation process. All I'm saying is that as long as they don't... I actually wish them well and hope they will come to our Toronto Convention at my personal invitation and tell us all of the merits of their program. A rising tide lifts all boats.

[Nick Gromicko]

I haven't studied their program but I hope it is tough and ligitimate, for NACHI's sake. We have a no-entrance-requirement diploma mill down here in the states (send $ and shazam you are an inspector) and they are very hard to compete with: http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/join/...plication1.htm

Another national certification with real requirements like NACHI would be refreshing. I'll help them succeed if they ask me to.

BTW: Do any Canadian associations have any ties to known, no-entrance requirements-whatsoever diploma mills? That would be unfortunate.

[rwand1]

This report assumes CAHPI will hold the right to certify. Elements of this authority will be delegated to a National Certification Council, a National Registrar, a National Accreditation Committee, and to other committees, associations, and organizations as appropriate.

Elements of the national certification model developed by the CHIBO Working Committee would be difficult for a National Certification Council to administer. Therefore, this model assumes that associations at the
provincial level will be involved in the National Certification Program and will provide recommendations on certification to the National Certification Council.

Certain elements of the National Certification Model developed by the CHIBO Working Committee would be difficult for a National Certification Council to administer. Therefore, this model assumes that associations at the provincial level will be involved in the National Certification Program and will provide recommendations on certification to the National Certification Council. Note that certain elements could
be outsourced as long as the final decision to certify rest with the certification body. Guidance on outsourcing is included in Appendix F

[Nick Gromicko]

You know it would be good for NACHI if EVERYONE had to get national certification. It would be a windfall for NACHI. But that would require a law.

And it would be fine if another private trade association offered another legitimate national certification without legislation as NACHI finds competition healthy.

Either way is fine, I see the good in both.

[rwand1]

As long as they don't directly or indirectly attempt to harm NACHI member's business later by lying and telling potential customers or REALTORs that you "Have to" be certified by them and only them... our pack of attorneys will continue to sit back and twiddle their thumbs.

Well they have already done that. Thier National spokesperson has been caught repeatedly making stupid comments about NACHI. God knows what he's been saying behind close doors to industry leaders, along with a few other cohorts. The OAHI VP rep on the CAHPI board has already stated twice in publications that membership in a mail order inspection association is bad for your business based on assumptions that don't hold water.

[Nick Gromicko]

NACHI recently passed up ITA to become the largest inspection education event host in the world, and with 24 hours (soon to be 30 hours) annual CE requirements and over 500 actual events a year... it is pretty silly to call NACHI a mail order anything.