Bill Mullen's new website is very professional looking.

[Nick Gromicko]

Also, Rudolf, will we get to meet at www.nachi.org/toronto2008.htm ?

Find me when you get there and sit at my table. I like to talk to the guys who have been in it as long as you have been.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

I can honestly say that the Canadians I met while in Kingston were some of the NICEST and MOST PROFESSIONAL individuals I have has the pleasure to meet and teach. I am flattered that Bill took the time, and has the confidence and drive to invite me back to Canada, to London Ontario, to do it again.

Mr Ruesse is entitled to his opinion, and he is correct that success in this industry is not contingent on belonging to any association. Membership in an association doesnt hinder one either. If someone is happy with their membership, and perceives any value in it, they will renew year after year. Some benefits are intangible. Some are in black and white.

Regardless, unless we wake up as an industry, we will forever fight each other for the crumbs left over in the wake of the real estate transaction. Our inspections average around 1/10th of 1% of the total value of the deal. It is pathetic.

THIS, above all, is what we, as a profession, need to start concentrating on. Nothing else matters.

Diploma mills and easy certifications at little cost (NACHI) will flood the field (already saturated with HI's in urban centers) with more and more inspectors.......then it will be a fight to the finish with prices dropping.

From a local franchisor's website:

Testimonial…

"With the excellent support from the Head Office I have sold more franchises in the first six months than I gave myself three years to sell. There are a lot of people who want to become home inspectors- Head Office shows you how to sell them franchises. It has been that simple and straight forward for me."

Notice my underlined sentence........ Great for Vendors.....terrible for all the wannabes. Feel sorry for these new franchisees!! The franchisor is obviously doing well.....but the buyers????

I've seen 2 of the first 3-4 NACHI NS members from 1-2 years ago drop off the NACHI certified list already and a third works for an engineering firm.......keeping his day job for real income!! Sounds like maybe a 25% success rate or if there were only 3 early members.......a 0% success rate!!!

The easy certification is like the first hit of crack......"Man, this stuff is good and easy" Now they have to get experience (Hey what!!! They're already certified, aren't they?) and then compete in a very crowded marketplace.......Good luck!! As Roy Cooke truthfully said: "70-90% are out of business in 3 years!!!" That's why the turnover on these boards is so high!!

To quote from a member that posts frequently after an announcement from Nick that there was another approved INACHI CMI "school" in Canada:

"Exactly what we didn't need in Canada: another diploma mill ."

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Also, Rudolf, will we get to meet at www.nachi.org/toronto2008.htm ?

Find me when you get there and sit at my table. I like to talk to the guys who have been in it as long as you have been.

Yes, there's a lot to learn yet, Nick! This field needs to be regulated as are engineers, doctors, lawyers, hairdressers, etc.


Note: My opinion is from 27 years of experience. First house inspected for others was in 1981. Bought the company I presently own from an engineer and engineering technician in 1984.

[Nick Gromicko]

Brian, InterNACHI is now the largest trainer in the inspection industry and the undisputed leading provider of advanced education.

The overall expertise of our industry is inversely related to the cost of attaining that expertise.

Let me say that again as it is an important point:

The overall expertise of our industry is inversely related to the cost of attaining that expertise.

I am very pleased that you acknowledge InterNACHI's success at keeping that cost down, however, your belief that lower cost education and training relates some how to a lack of overall expertise instead of more expertise... shows all that your thinking is backwards and upside down.

The more training and advanced education we make available to the industry, and the more convenient and inexpensive we make it, the more inspectors avail themselves of it... and the better our industry becomes to the benefit of consumers everywhere.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Brian, InterNACHI is now the largest trainer (without proctored exams or true verification of everyone's status...."Oh!!! Brian we're on the honour system!!!" I'm glad a lot of other "professionals" aren't so that when I go to a doctor I know he/she has truly been trained, tested and verified as meeting the qualifications of the profession......no honour system!!!) in the inspection industry and the undisputed leading provider of advanced education. (easy to be the largest if it's basically free and unproctored; why don't dentists, doctors and lawyers follow your example if it's so advanced? You should take it to the universities and see if you get an audience!!)

The overall expertise of our industry is inversely related to the cost of attaining that expertise.

Let me say that again as it is an important point:

The overall expertise of our industry is inversely related to the cost of attaining that expertise.

Funny, Nick, in every other educational endeavour I can think of, the opposite is true. Look at the IR training by the long established experts of 25-30 years versus the NACHI 2 day webinar certification without even having a camera!!!

I am very pleased that you acknowledge InterNACHI's success at keeping that cost down, however, your belief that lower cost education and training relates some how to a lack of overall expertise instead of more expertise... shows all that your thinking is backwards and upside down.
Expertise in this work requires a lot of field experience.......where do you get that in online courses.......when I look at the bulk of memberships, they are within the last year or two......lots of experience!!

The expertise you claim to be developing in some fields is basic entry level and enough to get newbies in trouble rather than giving the public "experts" as their "certified" logos insinuate!!!

The more training and advanced education we make available to the industry, and the more convenient and inexpensive we make it, the more inspectors avail themselves of it... and the better our industry becomes to the benefit of consumers everywhere.

Your last statement is somewhat true but.......each year your organization needs the revolving merry-go-round of hundreds and hundreds of wannabes being led to believe that it's a snap to be a long term successful home inspector to keep the vendor wheel running also. Some of the main posters are ......you guessed it........VENDORS!!! I'm here to help you...BUY THIS!!!

[Joe Farsetta]

Brian,

Your distaste for InterNACHI is obvious, and has skewed each and ever response you make, no matter the thread.

Perhaps you should stop yelling to the trees and concentrate on the context of the message posted, instead of swinging wildly at anything NACHI.

You characterize diploma mills, easy certifications, etc. While some, if not many, educational providers may do this, not all do. If you bothered to attend my Certified Well Sampler seminar, and took the final exam, you'd know a little of what you speak.

Same goes for Certified Commercial Inspector. I do not pretend to be able to teach everything one needs to know, from a technical standpoint, when performing an inspection. I take the other approach; eg: operational readiness and procedural competence. I dont ever hear you mention other education providers as not fullfilling their marketed promises; only when NACHI does.

My classes are highly rated, and my prices are unheard of. I do it BECAUSE of the long-standing relationship I have had with Nick and with NACHI. He understands there is a price for me doing this, and a benefit for all NACHI members. This is clear to see. it is not an intangible.

Your baseless attacks only serve to dillute whatever legitimate messages you try to convey.

Eventually, every ear tunes out the whining. Even yours.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Brian,

Your distaste for InterNACHI is obvious, and has skewed each and ever response you make, no matter the thread.

Joe, you haven't seen all my posts obviously and the greens, I didn't get from criticizing but from technical content...........well no I lie.....some were from NACHI members due to my critical posts!!!

I said to Nick on the boards: make the certifications really mean something and I'll join!!" ......Not that's he's going to change......(hic...especially for me).....he's got a formula that attracts high #'s of wannabes into an already crowded marketplace....can't beat that can you?? It helps the franchisors and vendors......... so they're happy and very supportive!!!

You characterize diploma mills, easy certifications, etc. While some, if not many, educational providers may do this, not all do. If you bothered to attend my Certified Well Sampler seminar, and took the final exam, you'd know a little of what you speak.

If it's a proctored exam and has great course content/hands on, good,..... then why don't you to convince Nick that all NACHI certs should be the same.

Same goes for Certified Commercial Inspector. I do not pretend to be able to teach everything one needs to know, from a technical standpoint, when performing an inspection. I take the other approach; eg: operational readiness and procedural competence. I dont ever hear you mention other education providers as not fullfilling their marketed promises; only when NACHI does.

The training institutions/providers that I hear most positive about here in Canada like Carson-Dunlop, Humber College, George Brown College, Henson College (extension section of Dalhousie University) all require proctored exams......and no repeating the exams until you pass either!!!

What nationally recognized associations (ASTM, NIST, NSF, Consumers' Reports.org, Consumers Assoc of Canada) or universities/colleges recognize your above certifications?


My classes are highly rated, and my prices are unheard of. I do it BECAUSE of the long-standing relationship I have had with Nick and with NACHI. He understands there is a price for me doing this, and a benefit for all NACHI members. This is clear to see. it is not an intangible.

If you can offer the courses for next to nothing, you must already have $$$.....the rest of us are not necessarily like you and have to have income.

Your baseless attacks only serve to dillute whatever legitimate messages you try to convey.

Eventually, every ear tunes out the whining. Even yours.

I remain

PS: from a CMI on another new thread:

"Better yet, pay the money, study FOR REAL, and get ICC certified."

[Joe Farsetta]

ICC Certification carries its own perils.

What nationally recognized associations (ASTM, NIST, NSF, Consumers' Reports.org, Consumers Assoc of Canada) recognize your above certifications?

Whch ones recognize anyones, unless compensated for said endorsement?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

ICC Certification carries its own perils.

What nationally recognized associations (ASTM, NIST, NSF, Consumers' Reports.org, Consumers Assoc of Canada) recognize your above certifications?

Whch ones recognize anyones, unless compensated for said endorsement?

Up here, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, our fererally funded national housing agency, has funded/supported/promoted (but not formally through regulation) CAHPI and its credentials.

And in your quote of my question, you removed "colleges/universities"!! As these institutions offer the training, they must have felt there is enough academic rigor in the courses to offer and stand behind them!!

[Nick Gromicko]

ICC??? Brian, now I really know that you don't know what you are talking about. We've looked at this twice in the past 10 years. Less than 1% of all home defects were caused by not being "up to code." Less than 1%. In the states it is very common for a government code official to inspect (for occupancy permit) the same home that one of our members inspects (for the buyer). Typically the InterNACHI members will discover 100 times as many issues as code officials.

Here we go again with one of those statements I should repeat twice (I won't, I'll only say it once):

Everything built or installed to code eventually fails.

That's right, every roof installed to code eventually leaks, every deck built to code eventually rots, every furnace installed to manufacturers instructions will eventually need to be replaced.

ICC is great for learning, but not very useful otherwise in an industry that doesn't quote code and where most defects found are of components installed perfectly to code.

And finally... you might want to read this: http://www.nachi.org/codecertifiedwarning.htm

Brian, I've never found anyone who is more off base than you with almost every post. Admit it... you're a newbie just pretending. Did I guess right?

[jbettencourt]

Actually Brian if you read their website they recommend the NCP, but they clearly state that they do not recommend any individual inspector or association over another. It makes no mention of CAHPI or any other association, just a voluntary certification program.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jbettencourt

Actually Brian if you read their website they recommend the NCP, but they clearly state that they do not recommend any individual inspector or association over another. It makes no mention of CAHPI or any other association, just a voluntary certification program.

Quote from the CMHC piece on "Hiring a Home Inspector" (just taken from the site!!):

"The Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI) with the support of CMHC, Human Resources and Social Development Canada and the Construction Sector Council, developed a voluntary national accreditation and certification program to help ensure the competency and professionalism of home inspectors. Home inspectors who have met the requirements of this national certification program are designated National Certificate Holders."

May be splitting hairs here, Jerry. Implicitly, this is an endorsement for CAHPI as these agencies found it worthwhile to give it financial support to develop a national and defendable accreditation.

[Nick Gromicko]

Brian, now I'm really confused.

Even a pseudo government agency in your own country seems to support or at least lightly reference the value in private voluntary certifications just like many governments and consumer groups recommend in the states. I'm lost. Are you in favor of voluntary certifications like NCP, Infrared-Certified, IAC2, CMI, and ICC or aren't you?

I'm a supporter of all the above voluntary certifications.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by gromicko

ICC??? Brian, now I really know that you don't know what you are talking about. We've looked at this twice in the past 10 years. Less than 1% of all home defects were caused by not being "up to code." Less than 1%. In the states it is very common for a government code official to inspect (for occupancy permit) the same home that one of our members inspects (for the buyer). Typically the InterNACHI members will discover 100 times as many issues as code officials.

Oh come on, Nick. It may even be hard to find members that will support that claim. Code officials are not quality inspectors......period. Will the NACHI inspector find code items not properly done or even know that there are code items missed? How can they truely inspect a new home? They better hope the code guy did his job well or else point out that they can't inspect for code items the code guy missed.....so what's really the point of hiring one for a new home inspection

Here we go again with one of those statements I should repeat twice (I won't, I'll only say it once):

Everything built or installed to code eventually fails.
HUH!! If its' built below or way above code it also eventually fails. If I put a stone out in the weather, eventually it will be dust!! Your attempted point was?

That's right, every roof installed to code eventually leaks, every deck built to code eventually rots, every furnace installed to manufacturers instructions will eventually need to be replaced. Stating the obvious does what? YOUR POINT IS????

ICC is great for learning, (Is it or relevent housing sections mandatory in your training; NBC Part 9- Housing and Small Buildings is mandatory for CAHPI) but not very useful otherwise in an industry that doesn't quote code and where most defects found are of components installed perfectly to code.
HUH!! Did you really mean to say this??

And finally... you might want to read this: http://www.nachi.org/codecertifiedwarning.htm

Brian, I've never found anyone who is more off base than you with almost every post. Admit it... you're a newbie just pretending. Did I guess right?

Oh!! I quoted the phrase from another disappointed ex-member but hilighted the "study FOR REAL". Wasn't really concerned much about the ICC......just his comments on training and formerly being a member here.

Here's some of his later comments tonight on these boards:

"I agree with Brian. Most home inspectors I have met and seen their reports are CLUELESS.

They need their little waivers because they are borderline retarded, wanna-be inspectors. It is a shame."

G'night!

[jbettencourt]

Brian if you go to the Consumers section and the homebuying step by step recommendations and professionals to hire. Where it addresses Home Inspectors it clearly states that CMHC does not endorse one association over another but does provide a link to the NCP website. Brian, I am not knocking the standards required for the NCP because I believe it is something I should be aiming for because all inspectors need to continuously learn if you don't you are dead in the water.