Calling all Canadian Electricians

[alarsen1]

Sorry... no emergency... but wanted to ask any of you fine gentlemen who are UP on current Canadian electroical code, if it is a requirement for a microwave to be on an independant circuit?

I inspected a new (built in 1989 - fully renovated and re-modeled the whole building) vacant apartment today and found that the microwave & refrigerator were on the same circuit. This may be okay, but not how I would have done it were it my own home, so wanted to know what THE LAW said. Thanks! Off to number TWO... inspection that is...

[Rob A. Parker]

Arne here in Ontario the micro and the fridge each have their own circuit as far as I know.

[Bill Redfern, CHI]

Micro gets its own in NS as well.

regards,
Bill

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by alarsen1

Sorry... no emergency... but wanted to ask any of you fine gentlemen who are UP on current Canadian electroical code, if it is a requirement for a microwave to be on an independant circuit?

I inspected a new (built in 1989 - fully renovated and re-modeled the whole building) vacant apartment today and found that the microwave & refrigerator were on the same circuit. This may be okay, but not how I would have done it were it my own home, so wanted to know what THE LAW said. Thanks! Off to number TWO... inspection that is...

Arne

Here are the Electrical Codes 26-720 [a] Each receptacle installed for a refrigerator shall be supplied by a branch circuit that does not supply any other outlet, except a recessed clock receptacle intended for use with an electric clock:

26-720 [d] Each receptacle installed in a cupboard, wall cabinet or enclosure for the use of a microwave oven in accordance with rule 26-710 [i] shall be supplied by a branch circuit that does not supply any other outlets and this circuit shall not be considered as forming part of the circuits required under rule 26-722 [b]

For the life of me I can't figure out why an electric clock is OK. And it has to be a recessed receptacle at that. I have only seen them[receptacle] in homes built in the 60's

Hope this helps
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[Marcel R. Cyr]

Mario;

The clock is OK because it usually runs on a AA battery.

As long as another device can not overload that circuit the clock should be alright.

Just loggical thinking there Mr. Watson. ha. ha.
Talking through my hat on this one, but it sounded good. ha. ha.

Marcel

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Just to add to this without the codes, Central Vac needs to have a dedicated circuit,as well as the laundry room, utility room.

I'm not an electrician Arne but I know my codes from an electrical course that I did.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Mario;

The clock is OK because it usually runs on a AA battery.

As long as another device can not overload that circuit the clock should be alright.

Just loggical thinking there Mr. Watson. ha. ha.
Talking through my hat on this one, but it sounded good. ha. ha.

Marcel

Marcel

In newer homes I don't see the recessed outlet [receptacle] for a clock. I guess our Electrical code is dated!!
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[alarsen1]

Thanks for all the responses guys... I "thought" as much, but wanted to be sure.

The Condo is a renovation... but not just a re-modelling of the individual unit, but a total reno of the whole place, all the common areas and every unit... new flooring... new cabinets... new appliances... new fixtures... Even the elevator doesn't smell funny!

In my mind - if they are going to that extreme with everything about the building - I would think that the electrical would have to be up to current code. In my way of thinking (I could be wrong) the only way I could see them getting away with having these two appliances share the same circuit would be if that was okay back when the building was first constructed in 1989, and that they didn't have to have an electrical permit as part of the current renovation... which would seem odd.

But even in '89, common sense would seem to dictate to me that two appliances like a microwave (which in '89 were massive wattage pigs) and a refrigerator (not a light-weight appliance either) shouldn't be inter-connected. My mothers old kitchen is like that... and if she runs the micro when the toaster is on, pops a breaker.

Maybe I'll track down the project Super and ask if any electrical permits were required as part of the reno. Thanks again all.

Arne

[alarsen1]

Upon closer examination... it is possible that the two branch circuits were separate. I say "possible" because as the two breakers were tied together, it was not possibly to trip one without tripping the other. Hmm...

Being willing to look the fool as opposed to having the gal go through grief, I called it like this:

2.7 No microwave present at this time, however the breaker for the refrigerator circuit is inter-connected with the breaker for the microwave circuit. Current electrical code (26 - 720 a & d) states that a refrigerator can only share a branch circuit with a recessed clock, and that a microwave circuit shall not share a branch circuit with any thing else... and while the two "circuits" may be separate, as the breakers are inter-connected, you can not help but trip both should one or the other overload.
To be on the safe side, and as there are still contractors on site, I recommend further evaluation by a licensed Electrical contractor to ensure that this arrangement is acceptable.

Thoughts and critique always welcome!

As the project isn't completely finished yet, there are still guys with hard hats still on site - so she shouldn't be out of pocket for getting one of them to check this out. If she is, I'll cover the cost and consider it a lesson learned.

[rwand1]

Its not wise to quote code, unless you are a code expert or you have been hired to document for litigation purposes the defects and what the code calls for.

In the end the electrical authority has the last call and may have approved the upgrade even though the code was not fully complied with.

As to the recessed outlet for a clock the current to run the clock is irrelevant in the scheme of power draw. The recess is so the clock hangs vertically on the wall.

[wjung]

Arnie,
Ray is correct you should never quote code in your report, unless you are code qualified and in fact have been retained by your client to perform a code compliance inspection. You are entering some very dangerous waters by portraying yourself as a code expert and potentially exposing yourself to some heavy liability.
Best regards
Wolf

[alarsen1]

Originally Posted by wjung

Arnie,
Ray is correct you should never quote code in your report, unless you are code qualified and in fact have been retained by your client to perform a code compliance inspection. You are entering some very dangerous waters by portraying yourself as a code expert and potentially exposing yourself to some heavy liability.
Best regards
Wolf

Okay... thanks Ray & Wolf... got it... avoid code (even paraphrasing)... but you didn't answer my question. Did I call it correctly or not? As the two breakers are tied together, and as one tripping will take the other one with it, is there an issue here?

[rwand1]

Arne
Yes you called it correctly but in lieu of quoting code, you could have said,

The breaker for the refrigerator circuit "appears" to be inter-connected with the breaker for the microwave circuit. Current installation requirements state that a refrigerator can only share a branch circuit with a recessed clock outlet, and that a microwave circuit shall not share a branch circuit with any other load... and while the two "circuits" may be separate, as the breakers are inter-connected, you can not help but trip both should one or the other overload.

I recommend further evaluation by a licensed Electrical contractor to ensure that this arrangement is acceptable.

Thats how I would write up the concern/finding.
Cheers,

[alarsen1]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Arne
Yes you called it correctly but in lieu of quoting code, you could have said,

The breaker for the refrigerator circuit "appears" to be inter-connected with the breaker for the microwave circuit. Current installation requirements state that a refrigerator can only share a branch circuit with a recessed clock outlet, and that a microwave circuit shall not share a branch circuit with any other load... and while the two "circuits" may be separate, as the breakers are inter-connected, you can not help but trip both should one or the other overload.

I recommend further evaluation by a licensed Electrical contractor to ensure that this arrangement is acceptable.

Thats how I would write up the concern/finding.
Cheers,

Thanks Roy! I didn't send it off until this morning (holding off until I received a more definitave answer from the gallery), and as such sent this off about half an hour ago:

2.7 No microwave present at this time, however the breaker for the refrigerator circuit is inter-connected with the breaker for the microwave circuit. It is my understanding that these appliances should be on their own circuits... and while the two "circuits" may be separate, as the breakers are inter-connected, you can not help but trip both should one or the other overload.

To be on the safe side, and as there are still contractors on site, I recommend further evaluation by a licensed Electrical contractor to ensure that this arrangement is acceptable.

Thanks again, Roy.

Arne

[wjung]

Arnie,
sounds ok to me.
Wolf