Check Inside Electric Panel ? not allowed

[bmullen1]

Originally Posted by gluck

Is it a C.A.H.P.I. requirement that "Nationally Certified" inspectors do not open the panel?

No, and it never will if I have anything to say about it.

OAHI/CAHPI Ontario has circulated an opinion piece from the Chair of the Technical Review Committee advising members not to open panels. I consider this to be his personal interpretation of the regulations. If we follow his thinking, we as home inspectors and even homeowners would not be able to take off switch plates. In other words, the next time my wife and I decide to paint our interior walls, we need to hire an electrican to come and take off all switch and outlet covers and then come back when we're done painting to put them back on.

In his opinion piece, he does, however give some hope for the future:

"The bottom line - If a home inspector is injured, causes damage by nicking or shorting a conductor, or if a disgruntled client, seller, or other person complains to the Ministry of Labour, then the home inspector would likely be prosecuted and subject to substantial fines.
The OAHI takes the position that if the panel cover can not be removed, home inspectors can not perform an adequate inspection of the electrical system and should advise the client accordingly. The OAHI was not consulted prior to the enactment of this regulation and contends that the magnitude of the electrical problems discovered by home inspectors has saved lives and improved electrical safety, and our safety record over the past 20 years should merit continuation of our accessing distribution panels.
The OAHI is trying to resolve this issue with the Ministry of Labour as well as ESA which has overlapping jurisdiction. Members should also remember that this regulation supersedes the requirements in the Standards of Practice to access electrical panels."

Bill Mullen

[bmullen1]

Originally Posted by gluck

Thanks Claude.
I take it you meant that " I do NOT alter, modify,touch . . "

I understand that a local "NATIONALLY CERTIFIED" inspector told a home owner that it was a C.A.P.H.I. rule that the box not be openned and that was why he reported that the entire house was wired with aluminum when it was not.

George:

This is hearsay and erroneous information that you have received from you brother-in-law who works at the real estate office. Either that, or you have decided to slander a fellow home inspector and CAHPI.

The actual report listed the branch wiring as copper with the exception of the stove cable, which the inspector noted and mentioned that no anti-oxident paste was visible.

Bill Mullen

[rwand1]

"The bottom line - If a home inspector is injured, causes damage by nicking or shorting a conductor, or if a disgruntled client, seller, or other person complains to the Ministry of Labour, then the home inspector would likely be prosecuted and subject to substantial fines.
The OAHI takes the position that if the panel cover can not be removed, home inspectors can not perform an adequate inspection of the electrical system and should advise the client accordingly. The OAHI was not consulted prior to the enactment of this regulation and contends that the magnitude of the electrical problems discovered by home inspectors has saved lives and improved electrical safety, and our safety record over the past 20 years should merit continuation of our accessing distribution panels.
The OAHI is trying to resolve this issue with the Ministry of Labour as well as ESA which has overlapping jurisdiction. Members should also remember that this regulation supersedes the requirements in the Standards of Practice to access electrical panels."

Never mind MOL and ESA if you screw something up the homeowner may take you to court, never mind the MOL and ESA.

[rwand1]

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/S...5/R05627_e.htm

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/R...213_e.htm#BK34
“competent worker”, in relation to specific work, means a worker who,
(a) is qualified because of knowledge, training and experience to perform the work,
(b) is familiar with the Occupational Health and Safety Act and with the provisions of the regulations that apply to the work, and
(c) has knowledge of all potential or actual danger to health or safety in the work;

[jwalker6]

Just got off the phone to a rep. at the Electrical Safety Authority (ESA). She says, yes, we may remove the panel just as we would be permitted to remove a cover plate. She's not a lawyer, of course.

Jim Walker

[rwand1]

Hi Jim,

I have found the ESA inspectors to be reasonable in their assessments and I have spoken to several at ESA headquarters and in the feild and none of them expressed any concern ever about me as an inspector opening the panel.

I have also done many inspections for electricians and none of them ever pointed out what I was doing was wrong, fwiw. Not that I am bragging, but, what I have experienced.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Several of the Ontario meeting groups have also heard the same. Electrical service panels can be opened, but hopefully safety procedures and protective equipment is part of the process.

As Bill indicated earlier it was an opinion piece from an individual.

[George A. H. Luck]

"George:

This is hearsay and erroneous information that you have received from you brother-in-law who works at the real estate office. Either that, or you have decided to slander a fellow home inspector and CAHPI.

The actual report listed the branch wiring as copper with the exception of the stove cable, which the inspector noted and mentioned that no anti-oxident paste was visible.

Bill Mullen"

Bill, Bill, Bill.

You of all people should know that when you make defamatory statements like the one above they should at least have some basis in fact. I don't have a brother-in-law in real estate. My sister is married to a retired English teacher living in the Sarnia area. Of course my sister may not have been completely truthful with the rest of the family but that would come as quite a shock to her children and Grandchildren not to mention her Mother and Husband.

If this is an example of the type of "background check" that applicants can expect to be subjected to by your CAPHI then I might suggest that twelve year olds from around the continent and several countries off shore have just been presented with a new outlet for their after hours activities. Of course we all know that I am only kidding here as it appears that you personally require a better source of information. I can only assume that your present source is the same dim bulb who accused me of performing a sub standard inspection at a home to which I had never been. He is well known for not checking his facts so beware! Fortunately the real estate people take him about as seriously as I am taking your ridiculous claim here.

As far as your confession that there is a CAPHI inspector who misdiagnosed some aluminum stove wiring, that opens some interesting possibilities. The inspection to which I refer included, I was told, blanket statements about the wiring of the entire house, not just the stove wiring. So it now appears that we have a second CAPHI inspector running around out here who has not been properly trained in defect recognition ( electrical).

Perhaps this is an area on which CAPHI can focus to improve the flagging reputation of their "nationally certified" inspectors. I mean, if there are two of these ill trained "nationally certified" inspectors floating around this small market, the mind reels at the possibilities on a nation wide scale! Why there could be hundreds of them all ignoring aluminum wiring and God knows what else!

Of course the possibility remains, Bill, that you haven't heard about this other instance as it may have been settled "out of court" if you will. That raises the unfortunate possibility that you are not nearly as well connected as you think you are.






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[Nick Gromicko]

http://www.nachi.org/nastypanel2006.htm

[rwand1]

How about this one? Can you spot the issues?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by gromicko

http://www.nachi.org/nastypanel2006.htm

Aww...give me (1) hour and I can make that panel compliant...

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by rwand1

How about this one? Can you spot the issues?

Who is going to charge you with removing a nonexistant panel cover?
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