How to collect a Vermiculite sample?

[Stepan Reut]

What is a standard practice for asbestos sampling in residential houses in Ontario? The question was asked by my client, who is a real estate agent. They found 2-3 inches of Vermiculite in the attic of the house he sells.

My first answer was "one sample". Now I am not so sure. Sometimes I receive 3 samples for testing, sometimes one. Is there a standard practice? Thank you.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Regardless of how many samples you take you still not be sure some area does not have asbestos .
Vermiculite came in individual bags and a person can not be sure they have sampled every one

http://www.carsondunlop.com/Inspectors/supplementary.htm
http://www.carsondunlop.com/OBS/vermiculite.htm

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/vermiculite.html

[Stepan Reut]

Thank you Roy. There is a Ministry of Labour regulation which defines number of samples for different type of insulation materials. The problem is that it developed for industrial applications, and is too expensive for home owners. I hope, maybe there is an industry standard, which describes what to take to a lab and how many samples are enough.

[Steve McRae]

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/reg...278_e.htm#BK24
3 samples required.
Scroll down to Table 1 (bulk samples). I didn't read it all but, there may also be requirements as to who can collect the samples. When I worked in property restoration we could collect vinyl tile and send for sampling, but when we had insulation to test, the other company had to come and collect the samples. I think because it would have been a Type 3 Removal.

[Stepan Reut]

Thank you Steve. MOL regulation 278, has a table with number of samples vs contaminated area. I just want be sure that Home Inspection Industry does not have it own policy how to collect asbestos samples. So I guess it is the same requirement for everyone 3 samples of vermiculite per attic.

Thank you for your help!

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by smcrae

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/reg...278_e.htm#BK24
3 samples required.
Scroll down to Table 1 (bulk samples). I didn't read it all but, there may also be requirements as to who can collect the samples. When I worked in property restoration we could collect vinyl tile and send for sampling, but when we had insulation to test, the other company had to come and collect the samples. I think because it would have been a Type 3 Removal.

Houses with more then 90 sq m call for 5 samples.
90 sq m = 968.7519 sq ft.

[Steve McRae]

Originally Posted by vmitchinson

Houses with more then 90 sq m call for 5 samples.
90 sq m = 968.7519 sq ft.

That's Item #1 surface material though right?
Item #2 Insulation, 3 samples any size over 2 linear metres (.5 square metres)

[George A. H. Luck]

I find that virtually every house that has vermiculite, regardless whether or not it is contaminated with asbestos, is completely cleaned out by either the purchaser or the vendor. It seems pointless to send anything away for testing knowing that the vermiculite will end up being taken out anyway!

[Stepan Reut]

If the owner removes himself, this is his problem as long as he disposes it according to law. If he hires people to remove vermiculite, it becomes mandatory to check for asbestos presence. MOL Rer 278 is specifically designed to protect workers from asbestos exposure.

My point is that sooner or later somebody will need to test it.

http://www.lcsairtest.com/safe-home/vermiculite.html

[Vern Mitchinson]

In this province there are very strict protocols for dealing with asbestos and its disposal. It's also expensive. Every vermiculite sample that I’ve been involved with had asbestos. There was a house on the next block that had siding with asbestos in it and they enclosed the whole building before they removed the siding. The site was fenced off with 8’ high fences and big warning signs all around the site. Asbestos is a major issue when it comes to removing it and disposing of it. Big $$$$$ also.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by vmitchinson

In this province there are very strict protocols for dealing with asbestos and its disposal. It's also expensive. Every vermiculite sample that I’ve been involved with had asbestos. There was a house on the next block that had siding with asbestos in it and they enclosed the whole building before they removed the siding. The site was fenced off with 8’ high fences and big warning signs all around the site. Asbestos is a major issue when it comes to removing it and disposing of it. Big $$$$$ also.

How nuts can they be!! With a little care, asbestos siding can be taken off with little to no breakage....and little to no release of fibers......overblown fear of the problem.

In Halifax, certain sections of the city have asbestos in the plaster and asbestos based building paper between subfloor and hardwood.......will every house have to be enclosed for renovation or demolition??

[Rodney Misener]

I hope everyone has the appropriate insurance before taking any samples.......

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by rmisener

I hope everyone has the appropriate insurance before taking any samples.......

Explain that one, Rodney.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Very carefully!

[Rodney Misener]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Explain that one, Rodney.

Most E&O insurance policies do not cover asbestos or mold, etc. It can be very expensive to obtain insurance coverage for asbestos(requires special insurance, even for sampling), and many that think they are covered actually are not. Call your insurance company and ask them, see what happens....I've seen many people go down that road before.