Congratulations to PHPIO... Ontario's new home inspection association.

[Nick Gromicko]

Can I join?

[George A. H. Luck]

"The founding fathers [allthough I don't know them all] are an impressive bunch."

Yes Mario, they are. But probably not in the way you intended. Be careful my friend, you are known by your lieutenants.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by gluck

"The founding fathers [allthough I don't know them all] are an impressive bunch."

Yes Mario, they are. But probably not in the way you intended. Be careful my friend, you are known by your lieutenants.

George,

The only LT's I have are God, Daughter and Wife! Not allways in this order!!

[dplummer]

"Well that's quite a team. Same old warm bodies making up a less than reputable team again. This is not change, this is going to be more of the same. Firstly William DeVries could hardly be said to be one of the most experienced and well respected home inspectors in Canada, let alone Ontario... well okay maybe in the Kingston region.

Bill Mullen, Mike O'Grady, and George Webb, all die hard fans of the National Certification program, with Bill Mullen, and George Webb actively on the National, along with Claude Lawrenson, who amongst other roles with the National and CAHPI is also a vendor and involved with Humber College and First Nations Home Inspections Registrar.

Cam Allen disgruntled ex Treasurer of OAHI and ex board member of OAHI and champion of his own causes and former member of Nachi disgraced when he and Mr. Fulton got caught up in the Nachi printing scandal a few years ago. And who also proclaimed that the National Cert. was the best thing for Nachi members without ever consulting anyone else outside of the Kingston clique.

Brian Callaghan ex Registrar and Director of OAHI a number years ago and who up until recently has kept a low profile.

Paul Wilson, long time spokesperson for himself and all things good, and course provider.

Unfortunately many of these same people served on the Board of Directors of Oahi (Bill Mullen, George Webb, Brian Callaghan, Mike O'Grady, Cam Allen) during a period of irregularities with the bylaws, conflicts of interest and financial concerns/issues.

Its nice to see that such a fine outstanding group of inspectors has gotten together to ensure calamity and more self aggrandizement during their tenure as founding directors of PHPIO.

Too all congratulations, and you can be sure we will endeavour to get the word out to the home buying public that baloney will be the sandwich of choice for home inspections.

If this group has any merit the first order of business is being able to communicate effectively and without the need of embellishments as is standard fair for several of these members who claim and want others to believe that CAHPI and the National Cert. are at arms length from one another who at this point in time have once again been fudging the number of members they claim are part of the National Cert. program.

I can only imagine that the turf war between OAHI and PHIPO will heat up given that OAHI funds have been pumped into CAHPI over the years all for not. It remains to be seen the number of inspectors who will run out to join this fledging home inspection association with no real credentials, and is nothing but another self proclaimed private body claiming to be the authority of self regulation and conflicts of interest.

Thanks Nick for exposing the laughable merits of this folly. This group certainly has no claim to make that they are the best and will be the best or any assurance that the public will be better served, not to mention funding of this non-profit group."

One of the current popular definitions of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over and expecting the result to be different." As you said Ray, it is the same old tired group with the same old tired ideas trying to control my and every other independent Ontario inspectors business. Several of the names noted include persons who have been directly involved in the demise of at least two other organizations in Ontario . And as you said, several others have neither the experience nor the reputation to qualify as " the most experienced and well respected inspectors in Canada."

They say " keep your friends close and your enemies closer". But really, the smell of the thing is too strong.


George, I enjoyed your post! My Grandfather always told me that a man is judged by the people he associates with & that a good indication of the future actions is past actions. All the best!

Doug

[Nick Gromicko]

Rae writes:

Given that licencing is on the horizon in Alberta, Que, and BC, this will further dilute the need to be associated with any association.

That is only because you are used to associations that do little more than try to perform bogus competence testing. Through those glasses, you are correct. The Provinces are now going to take that over and associations that offer nothing much more than logo usage in return for $ are bye-bye. Credential issuing is for governments, it is what they do. Let Ceasar have what is Ceasar's.

InterNACHI recognized this 20 years ago when Texas enacted the first licensing and realized that logo usage and credential issuing needs to be less than 0.5% of what an association does: www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm

This understanding is why InterNACHI is able to maintain so many dues-paying members in licensed states.

.... concentrate on doing the other 99.5% boys and you'll be fine... and let the "sexually-obsessed with credential issuing" crowd... wither away.

[Rudolf Reusse]

I would appreciate if one of the founders of the "PHPIO" would explain the rational of their motivation to create one more organization to confuse the public when searching for a competent home inspector in Ontario.

Adding - at this stage of the game - one more organization to the mix is - in my view counterproductive - and is only an embarrassing admission that the 20-year effort to secure the recognition of OAHI/CAHPI accredited home inspectors has failed.

Before explaining their decision - I suggest that some of these founders read all about their own enthusiastic "pep talks" in favour of OAHI/CAHPI which have been published in the past in the Canadian Home Inspector magazine for everyone to read.

RUDOLF REUSSE - Home Inspector since 1976 - TORONTO

[Nick Gromicko]

Don't worry about confusing the Canadian public... day by day, InterNACHI is unconfusing them www.nachi.org/blind.htm

[George A. H. Luck]

You know, when others say it best, there is little reason to try to improve;

As Brian said;

"Here we go again...splinter, splinter, splinter.....soon there will 2-3-4-5 orgs representing HI's in Canada. Sort of like religion with many splinter congregations of the same faith because "my interpretation of god or some other "fact" or "story"" is different than yours. Then it becomes a bunch of tiny voices with no one org to speak for the industry."

As Rudolf said;

"I would appreciate if one of the founders of the "PHPIO" would explain the rational of their motivation to create one more organization to confuse the public when searching for a competent home inspector in Ontario.

Adding - at this stage of the game - one more organization to the mix is - in my view counterproductive - and is only an embarrassing admission that the 20-year effort to secure the recognition of OAHI/CAHPI accredited home inspectors has failed.

Before explaining their decision - I suggest that some of these founders read all about their own enthusiastic "pep talks" in favour of OAHI/CAHPI which have been published in the past in the Canadian Home Inspector magazine for everyone to read."

[dcook1]

Originally Posted by gluck

You know, when others say it best, there is little reason to try to improve;

As Brian said;

"Here we go again...splinter, splinter, splinter.....soon there will 2-3-4-5 orgs representing HI's in Canada. Sort of like religion with many splinter congregations of the same faith because "my interpretation of god or some other "fact" or "story"" is different than yours. Then it becomes a bunch of tiny voices with no one org to speak for the industry."

As Rudolf said;

"

Before explaining their decision - I suggest that some of these founders read all about their own enthusiastic "pep talks" in favour of OAHI/CAHPI which have been published in the past in the Canadian Home Inspector magazine for everyone to read."

George,
They have probably been like me.... One time I responded to a request for volunteers, I advised I would be willing to man an OAHI booth at a trade show, I was told. "We have qualified people."
So I went in the same show on my own and made a lot of good contacts.
I am glad the OAHI rep put me down because I only do things now that promote me. OAHI will never be promoted by myself. OAHI does not promote me, I do not promote OAHI.
maybe one day if it (or the big boys that run that little sandbox) show that being a part of OAHI does benefit me, I will then show I can benefit OAHI.
And that is the feeling of many a good home inspector that has left OAHI aor declined to join.

[Nick Gromicko]

Man an InterNACHI booth to promote YOU. We'll ship you all you need, no charge. We do several hundred events a year: www.nachi.org/events.htm

[William R. DeVries, CMHI]

Originally Posted by dcook1

George,
They have probably been like me.... One time I responded to a request for volunteers, I advised I would be willing to man an OAHI booth at a trade show, I was told. "We have qualified people."
So I went in the same show on my own and made a lot of good contacts.
I am glad the OAHI rep put me down because I only do things now that promote me. OAHI will never be promoted by myself. OAHI does not promote me, I do not promote OAHI.
maybe one day if it (or the big boys that run that little sandbox) show that being a part of OAHI does benefit me, I will then show I can benefit OAHI.
And that is the feeling of many a good home inspector that has left OAHI aor declined to join.

David, were looking into November to have a few town hall meetings to meet the inspectors, and to put some ideas on promoting the inspectors.
Our announcement was in lots of news papers across ontario and canada's national papers, we are working on a tv spot as well.
We are trying to get the inspectors noticed with us, promoting both along the way. The goal is to end up promoting the inspectors from the association of Ontario.
George we all know you want to "go it alone" and that is your choice but how can you pass judgement when the association has just begun??
I remember talking with you where you told me you wanted to see a unified Ontario association that could and would speak for Ontario inspectors, that would be the voice for us in our provience, Why the change of heart now. Rudolf they have and did read about the pep talks, but when it falls on deaf ears over and over. and help and good intentions are met with a simple NO, after a while you look for something better, if you can't find a proviencial association that will look out for your interest then you MUST make one that will offer inspectors a choice. If you do not like whats on the table then go it alone there's no gun to anyones head, you have free will to decide whats right for you, wanna get involved then do so, put forth ideas, help, mentor, be part of a good thing so it does not go wayward, stand up and help to keep it on track, make a difference and try to be part of the solution, thats what I did and I am considered Independent as well, I just see the light at the end of the tunnel and chose to be one of the drivers on this bus, not on of the passengers at the back wondering where the hell it is going and where it made the wrong turn like the other association.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Bill, will PHPIO be seeking a seat in CAHPI?

Rae, give me your fax number, I will send you an ASHI application showing the only requirements they have are a valid credit card. We had a race at our InterNACHI chapter meeting... first one to join ASHI wins. We passed out blank ASHI applications. Winner filled out the application which required nearly nothing in 35 seconds. No experience necessary, no courses, no quizzes, no exams, no nothing. That is where I got the "you can join ASHI in 35 seconds" from. We blast out blank ASHI applications all over N. America and recommend that consumers and agents look for the ASHI logo so as to avoid diploma mill inspectors. Are you one?

But you sure as he!l can't get "fully certified" in 2 hours as at INACHI!!



ASHI Certified Inspectors— Inspectors in this category have:

• Passed the National Home Inspector Examination and ASHI's Standards and Ethics Examination.
• Had inspection reports successfully verified for compliance with ASHI's Standards of Practice.
• Submitted valid proof of performance of at least 250 fee-paid home inspections that meet or exceed the ASHI Standards of Practice.

From an email to me by a newbie about his INACHI CHI status:

"Its not a permanent thing...and definitely not something I'm proud to boast about, considering it took me all but 2 hrs. to become "certified". Don't worry, I've been listening to what you've been telling me. This just had to be a first step for our company. I have people on my back to start doing inspections for them, and CAHPI wasn't an option* at this point in time." (* because it takes time to be well trained, not 2 hours!!)

[William R. DeVries, CMHI]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

But you sure as he!l can't get "fully certified" in 2 hours as at INACHI!!


ASHI Certified Inspectors— Inspectors in this category have:

• Passed the National Home Inspector Examination and ASHI's Standards and Ethics Examination.
• Had inspection reports successfully verified for compliance with ASHI's Standards of Practice.
• Submitted valid proof of performance of at least 250 fee-paid home inspections that meet or exceed the ASHI Standards of Practice.

From an email to me by a newbie about his INACHI CHI status:

"Its not a permanent thing...and definitely not something I'm proud to boast about, considering it took me all but 2 hrs. to become "certified". Don't worry, I've been listening to what you've been telling me. This just had to be a first step for our company. I have people on my back to start doing inspections for them, and CAHPI wasn't an option* at this point in time." (* because it takes time to be well trained, not 2 hours!!)

Brian you actually can't be fully certified in 2 hours, your friend lied to you. Once you have done all of the following you are considered fully certified, please do not confuse yourself and others with your persistent BS.
You are not a member please try to stick to the facts.

1. You must have passed InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination (free) with a score of 80 or better.
2. You must have completed InterNACHI's Ethics Obstacle Course (free).
3. You must have taken InterNACHI's Standards of Practice Quiz (free).
4. You must mail, fax, or submit online InterNACHI's Affidavit.
5. You must agree to adhere to the Standards of Practice.
6. You must agree to abide by the Code of Ethics.
7. You must agree to continue learning (24 hours/year) as per the Continuing Education Policy.
8. You must agree to maintain your member Online Continuing Education Log (free) as per the Continuing Education Policy.
9. You must agree that (after you join) if you have never performed a home inspection for a fee you will submit 4 mock inspections to InterNACHI's Report Review Committee (free) before performing your first home inspection for a client.
10. You must agree that within your first 10 days after joining, you will login to NACHIs educational message board.
11. You must agree that within your first 30 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Standards of Practice course (free).
12. You must agree that before or within your first 30 days after joining you will complete InterNACHI's online Structural course (free) including all the quizzes within.
13. You must agree that within your first 45 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Plumbing course (free) including all the quizzes and pass its final exam.
14. You must agree that within your first 45 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Electrical course (free) including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
15. You must agree that before or within your first 45 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Safety Practices course (free) including all the quizzes within.
16. You must agree that within your first 60 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Roofing course (free) including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
17. You must agree that within your first 60 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Wood Destroying Organism course (free) including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
18. You must agree that within your first 60 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course and pass its final exam.
19. You must agree that within your first 3 months after joining, you will apply for a membership photo I.D. (free).
20. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Vermiculite Insulation mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
21. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Polybutylene Plumbing mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
22. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Water Heater TPR Valve Discharge Piping mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
23. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Emergency Exit mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
24. You must agree that within your first year of membership you will re-take and pass InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination again (free) with a score of 80 or better.
25. You must agree that before or within your first 18 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Log Home course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
26. You must agree that before or within your first 18 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Green Building course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
27. You must agree that before joining or within your first 2 years after joining you will take at least 8 hours of advanced or beyond Standards of Practice coursework (reasonable exceptions apply).
28. You must agree that within your first 3 years after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Mold Inspection course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
29. You must agree that within your first 3 years after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Commercial Inspection course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
30. You must agree that within your first 3 years after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
31. You must agree that within your first 2 years of membership you will attend at least one chapter meeting or educational seminar (reasonable exceptions apply).

Then to maintain your mrmbership you must do the following
Requirements to maintain membership after you apply/join:

1. You must adhere to the Standards of Practice.
2. You must abide by the Code of Ethics.
3. You must continue learning (24 hours/year) as per the Continuing Education Policy.
4. You must maintain your member Online Continuing Education Log (free) as per the Continuing Education Policy.
5. If you have never performed a home inspection for a fee you must submit 4 mock inspections to InterNACHI's Report Review Committee (free) before performing your first home inspection for a client.
6. You must agree that within your first 10 days after joining, you will login to NACHIs educational message board.
7. You must agree that within your first 30 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Standards of Practice course (free).
8. You must agree that before or within your first 30 days after joining you will complete InterNACHI's online Structural course (free).
9. You must agree that within your first 45 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Plumbing course (free) including all the quizzes and pass its final exam.
10. You must agree that within your first 45 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Electrical course (free) including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
11. You must agree that before or within your first 45 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Safety Practices course (free) including all the quizzes within.
12. You must agree that within your first 60 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Roofing course (free) including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
13. You must agree that within your first 60 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's comprehensive online Wood Destroying Organism course (free) including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
14. You must agree that within your first 60 days after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course and pass its final exam.
15. You must agree that within your first 3 months of membership you will apply for a membership photo I.D. (free).
16. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Vermiculite Insulation mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
17. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Polybutylene Plumbing mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
18. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Water Heater TPR Valve Discharge Piping mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
19. You must agree that within your first 6 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Emergency Exit mini-course (free) including all the quizzes within.
20. Every year of membership you must re-take and pass InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination again (free).
21. You must agree that before or within your first 18 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Log Home course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
22. You must agree that before or within your first 18 months after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Green Building Course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
23. You must agree that before joining or within your first 2 years after joining you will take at least 8 hours of advanced or beyond Standards of Practice coursework (reasonable exceptions apply).
24. You must agree that within your first 3 years after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Mold Inspection course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
25. You must agree that within your first 3 years after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Commercial Inspection course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
26. You must agree that within your first 3 years after joining, you will complete InterNACHI's online Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course (free) including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
27. Within your first 2 years of membership you must attend at least one chapter meeting or educational seminar (reasonable exceptions apply).

So as you can se your friend and you are really not aware of what is required to get and maintain your membership here at NACHI.

I do appoligise for the thread drift and respectfully ask that we keep in on the title.
Brain if you wish to start another thread to continue this please do so and I will gladly discuss NACHI memberships with you.

[William R. DeVries, CMHI]

Ray I agree with you, what the other association is and has done to many is beyond reproach, but some of us got turned off before we could even join as in my case. They just didnt want new members that had RHI in there sights and wanted that designation asap. I have completed the requirements, except there drfect recognigition course, and was told it had to be theres or NO other would substitute that told me it was only there courses that would be acceptable for advancement.
That means that any course not from them would be recgonised, thats a tough pill to swallow my friends, I wanted something that would grow with me, help me become better, allow me to meet and mentor me to become better all the time. This was and is not available with that association.
It is here at NACHI , and it will be with PHPIO as we all agree this is the building blocks of helping inspectors become awsome inspectors, to be able to help and get help when you need it, can you honestly say that this is not better as a whole.
I applaued you in your battle with them and given your record in how ever many years you will most likley win, drive them to thier knees or make them fold, this i have no doubt. BUT those of us that just do not want the fight or would rather as my best friend tells me, " keep toxic people and things outta my life" want a betterment for all HI's and to move forward, this new association is that answer and that path to a mentoring system, where it helps HI's move forward, get answers, has in place people to call on when your stuck, or need something with one difference its MADE IN CANADA for our Ontario inspectors.
I am proud to be able to help and learn and one day guide new inspectors to becoming better. I do hope that you see the difference between the two, and will allow us the time and option to prove ourselves, but we need support and the belief that this new path is a better option then going it alone. many hands make for light work, where proxy's are not allowed, where your voice is heard, where we all make a difference.
Billy

[bmullen]

Originally Posted by Rae Wand

William

I understand completely what you are saying.

However, correct me if I am wrong, but no one needs to be a member of any association in Canada to become a Nat. Cert. Holder. Is that correct? If I am correct what is the need of another assocaition? And if I am wrong why doesn't NCA create/amend its current bylaws to accommodate non affiliated members in so far as its discipline process?

As we know NCA has more or less left discipline of Ontario NCH with OAHI, which give the rot we know that no one would be guaranteed their due process and presumed innocence as per the Charter. Who is going to discipline Nachi members in Ontario who also hold a Nat. Cert?

The NCA has its own discipline Committee, totally separate from CAHPI or OAHI. The old Ontario association has no power or persuasion over the NCA.

Bill Mullen