Deck inspection

[Peter J. Jones]

The image above depicts deck framing near a chimney or bay window. The ends of decking boards near the chimney or bay window can extend unsupported up to 6 inches.

Hi Nick,

Would you please explain this rule a bit more “In-depth” for me.

Why can you not attach the ledger (we call this a WALL PLATE” in the UK) directly to the brickwork of the Bay or Chimney. With appropriate flashing etc. Surely as long as the structure is of a sound and sturdy quality then no harm done.

The only thing i can see that might cause a problem is on the Chimney illustration if the brickwork becomes too hot. Which it shouldn’t in normal domestic construction systems.

Thanks, sorry for being a “Pain” !

Hi Forum, This is a question i asked Nick and he thought i would be better off here. No picture loaded for some reason!

Peter Jones


Peter

[Scott May]

A simple answer is that brickwork is not intended to support load in that manner. The possibility of a bolt being attached to brick is that the brick will fail and the deck will come free from the structure. You will get more detailed answers so be patient.
Welcome to the board, it is always a good idea to go to your control panel and provide some details as answers vary from country to country.

cheers Scott

[KEVIN WOOD]

I will wait and see!

[Christopher Currins]

Basically what Scott said. Brick veneer alone will not support the weight/force of a deck.




The correct way to attach ledger board to band joist (building).

[KEVIN WOOD]

Don't forget that when you are talking about the brick veneer it is attached with metal ties. These ties are installed at courses of the bricks and cannot prevent the deck from pulling away from the wall and in some cases are installed with the wrong type of nails. No support can be put on these ties because they are designed for the weight of brick veneer only.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Chris, are you sure you want to go there, with this graphic???

Originally Posted by ccurrins

Basically what Scott said. Brick veneer alone will not support the weight/force of a deck.




The correct way to attach ledger board to band joist (building).

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by kwood

Don't forget that when you are talking about the brick veneer it is attached with metal ties. These ties are installed at courses of the bricks and cannot prevent the deck from pulling away from the wall and in some cases are installed with the wrong type of nails. No support can be put on these ties because they are designed for the weight of brick veneer only.

Yes Kevin, I agree! (Don't let it go to your head).

By today's standards, a deck should not be attached to brick veneer without special hardware/considerations.

Chris, your posted graphic does not stipulate the special considerations.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

BTW... anyone else not able to see the pic posted in the opening post? If you can see it, please "quote" it for me to see. (Just a big X for me).

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by jjonas

Chris, your posted graphic does not stipulate the special considerations.

Be more specific.

[Wand Raymond]

The only thing missing from that graphic is no installation of the drip cap over the ledger board. And its very uncommon to find a deck that has one installed. Seems to be a very popular omission.

Also one minor correction and Kevin you probably meant to say the brick ties do not carry the weight of the brick, that is the job of the foundation. Brick ties keep the brick veneer from bowing and falling.

[Nick Gromicko]

That isn't our graphic, and as Ray pointed out... it's wrong.

Anyway, a correctly-drawn ledger graphic (with drip cap) is about 1/3 of the way down in http://www.nachi.org/deck-inspections.htm

[KEVIN WOOD]

Correct and correct!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Article from a P.E. on the subject.

A. Christopher DeBlois, P.E., an engineer with Palmer Engineering in Chamblee, Ga., responds: Whenever there is a design alternative, I generally recommend against bolting a deck ledger board to brick veneer. I prefer to provide independent support adjacent to the house, usually with posts and beams. In many cases that is impractical or undesirable, however, so the deck gets bolted to the house.
The brick veneer on a house typically supports its own weight and nothing else. The section of the CABO One & Two Family Dwelling Code on lintels states that “masonry veneer shall not support any vertical loads other than the dead load of the veneer above.” When independent support is provided against the house to support the deck, standard practice is to bolt through the brick and the band at the house to provide lateral stability for the deck. That way the brick veneer is not forced to carry the weight of the deck, so there is no violation of the lintels section of the CABO code.
Although I’m against bolting the deck ledger to or through the brick veneer, I recognize that it’s not an uncommon detail and that building officials often approve it. With that in mind, here are some thoughts if you choose such an approach:
I have heard the direct bolting of a deck ledger to the house through the brick justified by arguing that because the bolts extend to the house band, the band will carry the deck weight. I disagree. With a separation of several inches between the back of the deck band and the face of the house framing, the bolts will bend or rotate before the weight is carried by the house framing. As soon as that starts to happen, the bolts will bear on the brick, and the veneer will be carrying the load. The good news is that in most cases the brick has substantial extra capacity. In fact, the capacity of the bolt-to-brick component of this connection will generally exceed the capacity of the bolt to the deck ledger itself. As a result, the required size and spacing of bolts are no different than for typical wood-to-wood connections (see Practical Engineering, 3/96). I strongly recommend bolting all the way through the house band to properly transfer forces pulling the deck away from the house into the framing instead of into the brick. Also, no lag bolts are allowed. And pay careful attention to sealing bolt holes and flashing against the house.
In some situations, requiring brick veneer to support the weight of a deck is a bad idea regardless of what local building officials allow. Do not bolt the deck band to the brick veneer if you suspect that there are no brick ties (all too common on older houses), if the condition of the brick and mortar is questionable, or if the brick ledge or footing supporting the brick veneer is not sound and stable.
Finally, a number of circumstances may warrant contacting a structural engineer for guidance. If there are large openings in the brick (for a bank of full-height windows, for example), stresses in the brick at the sides of these openings may be too high to permit support of deck loads. Similarly, if you need to support the end of a beam instead of just a continuous, uniformly loaded band, special support will be necessary.

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by pjones2

The image above depicts deck framing near a chimney or bay window. The ends of decking boards near the chimney or bay window can extend unsupported up to 6 inches. 6" deck board overhang is the maximum accepted standard

Hi Nick,

Would you please explain this rule a bit more “In-depth” for me.

Why can you not attach the ledger (we call this a WALL PLATE” in the UK) directly to the brickwork of the Bay or Chimney. With appropriate flashing etc. Surely as long as the structure is of a sound and sturdy quality then no harm done. proper deck ledger attachment in many instances can not be accomplished at chimney or bay. chimney or bay are not considered structurally sound to support the added movement, loads of the deck and users. this also includes deck to cantilever attachments

The only thing i can see that might cause a problem is on the Chimney illustration if the brickwork becomes too hot. Which it shouldn’t in normal domestic construction systems. roof framing is not allowed direct attachment to chimney and requires a 2" air gap why would deck framing be any different?

Thanks, sorry for being a “Pain” !

Hi Forum, This is a question i asked Nick and he thought i would be better off here. No picture loaded for some reason!

Peter Jones


Peter

jmo...

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Article from a P.E. on the subject.

A. Christopher DeBlois, P.E., an engineer with Palmer Engineering in Chamblee, Ga., responds: Whenever there is a design alternative, I generally recommend against bolting a deck ledger board to brick veneer. I prefer to provide independent support adjacent to the house, usually with posts and beams.

Did others notice the note on the picture/drawing?

"Extra Beam Close To House"